The Big Reveal (Spoilers, obviously)

Madhax

So, I'm nearing the end of my first run of BGEE, and I hadn't remembered how incredibly anticlimactic the reveal of the main character being a Child of Bhaal was. I mean, you've been reading letters dropped by Iron Throne employees for the whole damn chapter, it's getting to the point where you're just skimming them, and then you kill some pushover mage and find out you're the offspring of the God of Murder... by reading a journal.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if a less-observant or simply younger gamer could complete the whole game without ever realizing that he's a demigod. I mean, I'm sure Sarevok says something about it in the last battle (haven't reached him in quite a few years), but you get my point. Couldn't this twist have been handled a little better, either in the original development of the game or by Beamdog in the making of the enhanced edition?

Originally, I would have much preferred a scattering of hints, followed by a climactic reveal. Why not have Sarevok say it himself at the Duchal Palace? As he's teleporting out, he could say something like "Until we meet again... brother!". Fully voice-acted for added punch, following a satisfying showdown with some difficult enemies.

In the Enhanced Edition this likely wouldn't have been possible, but they could have fleshed out whats-her-name, the mage consort of Sarevok that you get the diary off of. Have her show up in the prologue to help kill Gorion, or have her on Koveras's arm in Candlekeep when you return. Give her a portrait or something. Add some voice acting. Sheesh.

Mitchell

Personally, I think it was handled fine. And I didn't find it anti-climactic at all. I first played through BG when I was twelve or thirteen, and I read every single letter that I came across. I like that BG doesn't hand you everything on a plate like far too many modern titles do. If someone misses the reveal, it's not a fault of the game.

And I'm sorry, but if Sarevok had said that line in the game, I would probably quit from laughing too hard. That sort of line is the kind of cheesy you get from cartoon supervillains, and would seem so out of place coming out of Sarevok's mouth.

Bugrat

I agree that the game doesn't present it as well as it could. A few years after BG2 came out I did a multiplayer game of BG1 to introduce the series to a friend of mine. This friend isn't really the type to read every word of dialog, found notes, other clues, etc. Pretty much at some point during Chapter 6 I had to tell him "hey did you notice that your character is a child of a god?" His reply was "huh??"

What journal are you talking about that reveals it? It has been a while since I played through the late late parts of BG. The only note that I remember that reveals it is the note found in Gorion's room that you read during the return to Candlekeep quests.

Amera

Mitchell said:

Personally, I think it was handled fine. And I didn't find it anti-climactic at all. I first played through BG when I was twelve or thirteen, and I read every single letter that I came across. I like that BG doesn't hand you everything on a plate like far too many modern titles do. If someone misses the reveal, it's not a fault of the game.

And I'm sorry, but if Sarevok had said that line in the game, I would probably quit from laughing too hard. That sort of line is the kind of cheesy you get from cartoon supervillains, and would seem so out of place coming out of Sarevok's mouth.

He yells out "Killing is our father's work!" and you don't think that is cartoonish? =P

Anyway, yeah, having not played the game for 10 years I was shocked at how well some things were handled and how poorly others were. The reveal was one of the big ones.

Madhax

Fair point that the line I said would have been cheesy. It was just off the top of my head. I just feel like the big reveal should have been a much more noteworthy event, or at least have been imparted in a more atmospheric situation. Perhaps in a dream sequence like the BG2 dreams with Irenicus.

There are just so many better moments in the game to reveal something like that. The whole "Koveras" thing, for example, feels very incomplete to me.

Pantalion

In a diary?

Looks like someone missed the heartfelt revelatory note written by your father explaining the truth of your birthright when they were passing through Candlekeep after being explicitly told that their late father had some stuff you should probably check out.

Madhax

Pantalion said:

In a diary?

Looks like someone missed the heartfelt revelatory note written by your father explaining the truth of your birthright when they were passing through Candlekeep after being explicitly told that their late father had some stuff you should probably check out.

Uh, crap. Definitely missed that, I have no idea what you're talking about. Is it at the top of the central keep? I never make it that far, since I tend to kill the Iron Throne leaders before I reach the top. Now I feel like a moron.

Aristillius

Amera said:

He yells out "Killing is our father's work!" and you don't think that is cartoonish? =P

I don't.

Jalily

Madhax said:

Originally, I would have much preferred a scattering of hints, followed by a climactic reveal.

You do get a scattering of hints.

- You start having foreshadowing dreams after leaving Candlekeep. Some excerpts:

(After you try to strangle Mulahey's "ghost" instead of using a bone dagger. Low reputation only.)

A talon extends and presses against your chest, and a hollow voice chills the air. "You should use the tools you are given." It traces a line of ichor on your tunic, increasing in pressure. "Listen to what is bred in the bone."

Stumbling forward, you find yourself face to face with... yourself.

Before you is a likeness in stone exact to the smallest detail. A voice in the darkness accuses you, even as it seems amused. "Such pride undeserved, great conqueror, when your whole being is borrowed. Credit where it is due, and dues where payment is demanded."

A dagger of bone flies from the blackness and strikes the statue, square. It cracks slightly, but the pain you feel is as though you were rent asunder.

"You were made as you are," taunts the voice, "and you can also be broken."

Tonight you dream of blood. Not of blood on a blade or the blood on your hands, but an ichor that runs as a torrent through the Realms. A flood that pours across the fields and forests. An ocean that floats you to the world's edge, and threatens to cascade off into the void.

[...]

The tide presses on, but you press back. Let the blood rage, as it will; you are in control of what is yours, and that is all you can ask. (This last part is for low reputation Charnames only.)

- You gain mysterious powers upon waking. Isn't that strange?

- Elminster's dialogue. Some excerpts:

"I am unsure, however, whether the distasteful road that thou hast chosen is the result of a sadistic humor, or just the path of least resistance. If thou must indulge thy predatory instincts, at least be sure that they do not take total control. This would be especially dangerous for thee."

"Be wary as well, for thou art making powerful enemies, both here... and within thyself. I am sorry I cannot speak more plainly on this matter, but events must unfold as they will without any meddling from this old man."

"I am not some old letch that follows thee around for the good of mine eyes, upstart. If I am to be accused of anything, perhaps it is that I have been a touch too mothering. I think this can be excused, however, when compared to the zeal with which thy true parentage pursues thee. I trust thou dost suspect that thou art not 'normal.'"

"Such bitter sentiment betrays thee. Thou art closer to thine true lineage than thou wouldst care to believe. Thou hast bad blood in thee, child, a taint that will consume thee if care is not taken."

"My worry is that thy lineage is harder to escape than most. Thou hast bad blood in thee, though Gorion did what he could to teach thee well and true. Thou hast hungry blood within thee as well, and it will not let thee go without a fight. For better or worse, what's bred in the bone will be dealt with in time. I trust thou hast the will to face what is within thee?"

As with the dreams, you get stronger hints with a "nastier" character.

- In Beregost, Firebead Elvenhair gives you History of the Dead Three as a reward for bringing him History of the Fateful Coin. If you've read these books, you'll know it's not a coincidence.

- In Baldur's Gate, a Harper named Entillis Fulsom has some interesting lines if you have low reputation:

"You are your father's child, <CHARNAME>. I have come to put an end to it."

"Don't be a fool. No one knew your father. It's a pity that you followed in his evil ways, child."

And if you have decent reputation and Khalid or Jaheira with you:

"[Khalid/Jaheira] has cared for you so well and kept you from the dark that was your father. Aye, and it is that dark that would have you dead, child."

- A commoner named Lantanara walks up to you in the Splurging Sturgeon and tells you about a dream she had:

"You were a god, made of iron, and I watched you from below, so far below. You were stolid, still, unmoving, a bulwark against some raging storm and then you—and then you shattered and... and broke... Your iron flesh, it tore itself asunder and—and—and you fell to your knees, a weakened being. It was horrible, a true horror, and I woke up weeping with my husband shaking me, desperate to rouse me from my reckless slumber... Whoever you be and whatever you have come here for, beware the fates for they... they be arrayed against you."

- BG:EE added one more bit of foreshadowing with the Meklin encounter in Baldur's Gate. If you tell Neera that you wouldn't let your past catch up with you as she has, she says, "I have a feeling you're going to eat those words, someday."

Dee

Jalily said:

snip

Boom! Editor'd.

Nukenin

I never finished BG1 before BG2 was released. I'm not sure if I was spoiled by the discussion of other players back then, or I remained cheerfully oblivious.

EDIT: Surely when I gained a use of cure light wounds after that first dream sequence I was suspicious!

My eyes rolled liberally that day (when I first fired up BG2). I've never been a fan of this overarching silliness. I finally did play through BG1 (+TotSC, patched but mod-free) several years later, but this had no bearing on my bias.

I played through BG2:SoA (many, many times!) and got to a point where I was grudgingly putting up with the overarching plot and then they released ToB and cranked the inanity to 11.

But I digress, as I often do. Here's what sold me on Baldur's Gate (well, besides the fact it was the latest installment of official TSR-sanctioned AD&D goodness on the computer):

"I am Volo, and I have traveled more of these Realms than any other. I'd bet ye a bag of gold and a half-dozen kegs of bitter black ale that ye cannot look upon the murderous beasts and minions of evil in the adventure ye hold in your hand and not turn tail. So waste no more time in your drab, humdrum world—it is time to draw steel in Baldur's Gate and test your mettle. Who knows, ye may find me there waitig to pay off the bet—or propose a better one, double or nothing!" (from the back of the box)

It be the moments that are evocative of this cheery invitation to adventure that I treasure. That's the Forgotten Realms I love.

Mad_Sweeney

Madhax said:

There are just so many better moments in the game to reveal something like that. The whole "Koveras" thing, for example, feels very incomplete to me.

Agreed. I think the "backwards name" is the most contrived plot twist a writer can use (Castlevania anyone?).

Madhax

I appreciate the breakdown of hints, I should have clarified that I'm aware of their existence. It's the final reveal that bugged me, not the story leading up to it.

Madhax

Mad_Sweeney said:

Madhax said:

There are just so many better moments in the game to reveal something like that. The whole "Koveras" thing, for example, feels very incomplete to me.

Agreed. I think the "backwards name" is the most contrived plot twist a writer can use (Castlevania anyone?).

Eh, I'd be more willing to suspend my disbelief regarding the obvious pseudonym if there was at least some intriguing interaction with Koveras. I mean, the dude walks up to you and describes events that clearly he could only know if he was at least affiliated with the party that killed Gorion. The most you're able to offer in return is vague suspicion. If I had full control over my character, my sword would be swinging at the guy's neck the halfway through his sentence. There's CLEARLY something fishy going on, and the PC can't do anything about it.

Minor tangent: Did they change Koveras's voice in BGEE? I distinctly remember Sarevok's voice actor reciting the Chanter's line about Alaundo's prophecy when Koveras talked to me in Candlekeep in BG1, but this time around it was a generic townsfolk's voice actor.

Andraste

The thing that really bugs me about the reveal is the total lack of NPC reaction to it. I mean, you just found out that you're Bhaalspawn! You would think that the people you travel with might have some feelings on the subject! (Even if you assume you don't tell them when you read the letter, Sarevok makes his motivations pretty clear later on.)

The thing I love most of all about the BG1 NPC Project mod is that it corrects this, which in turn gives CHARNAME a chance to roleplay a reaction to the news.

Jalily

Dorn reacts, but it would be nice if the others did, too.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Buttercheese

Well, BG has a lot flaws, just good, that they fixed them all pretty much all for BG2. When it comes to the storytelling and the gameplay itself, I see the first game a blue print for the second game. I mean, the BG is so full of stuff that have nothing to do the story, that it's painfull. I'm just unning around and try to do all quests, so that I get all the exp and equipment I need to defeat Sarevok. If he and his party wouldn't be such a damn challenge compared to the rest of the game, I wouldn't even care doing all those meaningless sidequests.

In the end, the game has a lot of issues, but it's ok, since there wouldn't be a BG2 without it. It was BioWare's entrance exam for the RPG world and BG2 is the doctoral thesis.

Mikkel

Buttercheese said:

Well, BG has a lot flaws, just good, that they fixed them all pretty much all for BG2. When it comes to the storytelling and the gameplay itself, I see the first game a blue print for the second game. I mean, the BG is so full of stuff that have nothing to do the story, that it's painfull. I'm just unning around and try to do all quests, so that I get all the exp and equipment I need to defeat Sarevok. If he and his party wouldn't be such a damn challenge compared to the rest of the game, I wouldn't even care doing all those meaningless sidequests.

In the end, the game has a lot of issues, but it's ok, since there wouldn't be a BG2 without it. It was BioWare's entrance exam for the RPG world and BG2 is the doctoral thesis.

That's fine if that's your preference, but I like that there's other things going on in the world than Your Magical Amazing Destiny (TM).

The_New_Romance

@Pantalion To be fair, they're very easy to miss as you pretty much

get arrested immediately after facing off with the Iron Throne head honchos in Chapter 6.

I'm a thorough player, and I never found them. I only know they exist because of Dudleyville.

And I'm with the OP, the way it's done might be realistic, but it's anticlimactic and easy to miss. I mean, it doesn't matter for us as we're already spoilt, but I wish it had been done in a more obvious kind of way so as to make some chins drop.

chebmeh

This was developed in a time where players almost universally read things in great detail. They were a lot more patient, back then.

Pantalion

@Madhax - Yeah, I think it's the floor *above* the Iron Throne level, a guy actively mores towards you as soon as you enter the level. Isn't it nice how a game that's been around for about a decade and a half can still surprise you with new stuff?

Madhax

Pantalion said:

@Madhax - Yeah, I think it's the floor *above* the Iron Throne level, a guy actively mores towards you as soon as you enter the level. Isn't it nice how a game that's been around for about a decade and a half can still surprise you with new stuff?

You know, I think I do vaguely remember that. Must have been over a decade ago. Not a fan of the placement of that particular nugget of information, then.

ReadingRambo

I don't know, I loved the reveal back when I first played in high school. I remember my heart racing reading the letter.
Also the ending cinematic to the game solved a question I had since first encountering the wolf in the first area and being slaughtered lol

Aasimar069

Madhax said:

I appreciate the breakdown of hints, I should have clarified that I'm aware of their existence. It's the final reveal that bugged me, not the story leading up to it.

Perhaps this game is the heirloom of a time where audience, sensational and such "hype" elements where not as important in our society as nowadays ?

Therefore there was no need for a spectacular climax with grandiose and psychodramatic elements (see what they have done with Grey's anatomy for instance ^^).

Quartz

Buttercheese said:

Well, BG has a lot flaws, just good, that they fixed them all pretty much all for BG2. When it comes to the storytelling and the gameplay itself, I see the first game a blue print for the second game. I mean, the BG is so full of stuff that have nothing to do the story, that it's painfull. I'm just unning around and try to do all quests, so that I get all the exp and equipment I need to defeat Sarevok. If he and his party wouldn't be such a damn challenge compared to the rest of the game, I wouldn't even care doing all those meaningless sidequests.

In the end, the game has a lot of issues, but it's ok, since there wouldn't be a BG2 without it. It was BioWare's entrance exam for the RPG world and BG2 is the doctoral thesis.

Yikes. No.