Solo Hardcore Blackguard Run

IN1

It is most distressing that this is the course thou’ve chosen. I remove my support, and will have no further dealings with thee.
-Elminster

In principle, my original intention was to check out the possibilities of soloing the game on Insane difficulty, sticking to hardcore no-reload rules, with a non-Thief character. Gradually, I grew excited about many aspects of playing a ranged (mainly) Blackguard, and decided to record the run in its entirety. It’s a short rush-through, slightly longer than 2 hours overall without cutscenes. I follow the critical path only, though you can notice I, erm, ‘tackle’ two new NPCs and pay a nice visit to Ulgoth’s Beard.

* Why a Blackguard?

The main concept behind this challenge was creating a character with maximum degree of safety: low AC to minimize the chance of being hit, high hp to withstand double damage, ranged for obvious statistical reasons. However, ranged weapons are not exactly the hottest option in IE games due to very low damage in comparison to their melee counterparts. Luckily, Blackguard’s wonderful Poison Weapon ability takes care of this issue formidably.

Sure enough, Assassin’s Poison Weapon was an underpowered ability in a context of a higher-level module (BG2). However, when even end-game opponents rarely have more than 50-60 hp, 12 hp guaranteed damage bonus to every successful attack during the 5 rounds the buff lasts is huge. Not to mention it potentially hits for a ton more, if the target fails a saving throw (and it happens a lot in a low-level module). And, as if it weren’t enough, the ‘hiccups’ caused by damage over time ticks slow enemies down significantly and interrupt spellcasting! In short, Poison Weapon definitely gets my vote as the single most universally useful non-buggy combat ability in BG:EE.

Additional point in Blackguard’s favor is his Fear immunity. Fear is the most important aspect of the instant-solo-death Fear-Hold-Charm triad in BG:EE: all the critical path mages up until chapter IV are extremely Horror-happy, so Fear immunity is a must. On the other hand, you can easily live without Hold and Charm immunities until Cloakwood and Cloakwood Mines.

Last but not least, Blackguard is able to use Rancor. While superficially, that’s a mediocre weapon, there are two huge pluses to it: (a) it transfers its +1 THAC0 buff to any other weapon in one’s quick weapon bar (actually, I don’t consider it a glitch, since the wording is: ‘When Dorn holds this blade, any death that it causes has a chance to grant Dorn an increase of +1 to his to-hit rolls for 24 hours’) – while that’s only really relevant early game (BG:EE does not require fantastic THAC0, as a rule), it is definitely a significant boost; (b) it can be obtained very early into the game, provided you are ready to make the, ahem, necessary sacrifice.

* When rushing the critical path, one is missing a lot of xp, right?

Simply put, that is wrong in a solo run. Consider this: there are 4 guaranteed (eh, if you know how to do it) kills on Elminster’s incarnations in chapters I, III, IV, and V. That alone amounts to 104,000 xp (26,000 x 4). Your limit, being a Paladin kit, is 150,000. You will eventually accumulate the missing 46,000 xp at some point during Chapter VII.

* So you played through the entire BG:EE without saving once? Really?

No. Not really. Initially, I have limited myself to making a save at every chapter’s end. However, several glitchy instances warranted a save beforehand (Senjak & Dorotea, Ducal Palace Doppleganger Conspiracy, Temple of Bhaal). None of these is especially challenging per se, they just can result in being stuck mid-chapter, so the saves were made for purely technical reasons.

* Links to chapters with crucial points summary

Prologue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVv6BZQ6IlE

Not much to do here. Killing Firebead for 2700 xp; killing one of the watchers for a plate mail and a helm; speaking to Gorion.

Chapter I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOehLdwviLs

Killing Elminster; getting Ring of Protection +1 and Elves’ Bane belt; making some gold out of Ring of Wizardry; getting Rancor; buying a Composite Longbow +1.

Chapter II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS1gk0T8FF4

Getting Ankheg Plate and the Dale’s Protector bracers; taking Rasaad’s Moonlight Walkers.

Chapter III: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfsJdDOcGOo

Killing Elminster in Beregost; getting the Dead Shot bow.

Chapter IV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PgL9qwUy40

Killing Elminster at Friendly Arm Inn; paying a visit to Ulgoth’s Beard for Ring of Invisibility, Greenstone Amulet and Ring of Free Action; getting Boots of Speed.

Chapter V: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggro8Z0Lo1M

Killing Elminster at Baldur’s Gate E; taking Ring of Protection +2; getting Cloak and Helm of Balduran.

Chapter VI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOaPCfKdBlc

Nothing. That’s correct: nothing at all.

Chapter VII: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp3PQOvI3V4

Buying Potions of Invisibility; finishing the game.

raywind

Seems easy but not as easy as with some arcane caster.

IN1

@raywind

Hm. IMHO, warrior-types are the safest/the most stable of the bunch due to their ability to don heavy armor, naturally high hp, and low time investment in preparation phase.

Mages are gimmicky and fun to play, but unless you go multi- or dual-class, I'd say they are the worst candidates for hardcore runs: the risk early/mid-game is very high. Yes, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Stoneskin are all great spells, but you don't get them until much later in the game.

Unfortunately, mages are also very stochastic as far as their damage output is considered. Needless to say, save-or-else effects are undesirable if you don't reload.

raywind

You are right. Arcane casters include many crappy options but i was thinking something like Blade or Sorcerer because those are the arcane casters i usually play.

IN1

@raywind
Yes, Blades are great universalists: a solid fighter (think of Blade under Offensive Spin with the Chesley Crusher!), a decent mage, a passable pickpocket specialist. Their armor options are also quite good in BG:EE. Such a pity that nasty Defensive Spin glitch really kills the pleasure of playing a Blade right now.

IN1

Actually, as a consequence of this little discussion, I fixed it manually and posted a method to do it: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/12038/fixing-the-defensive-spin-bug-manually

IN1

In fact, I'm thinking of making a personal tier-list for BG:EE solo characters, as I see people still dig those Kensai/Mages (one hell of a mental inertia, if you ask me) Some definite surprises there.

senta

Your first Elmisnter killing (second movie) looks extremely lucky. How many times you had to repeat that battle? I tried it myself with same stats and can't make it - 100 arrows is not enough too kill and that bastard is always attacking me with that f**** woodstick!! Every time i need about 30 min to make him "near death" so your movie looks absurdly to me.

senta

And I use potion of speed - lol.

IN1

@senta
I didn't repeat it at all. Just got lucky with a poison critical. However, during another Blackguard run, I used up 212 (!!!) arrows to kill him, so I can feel your pain Still, you can just kite him around the waystone indefinitely. Safe as milk, but extremely boring. Still, 26,000 xp is 26,000 xp

Coriander

That Elminsiter quote at the top looks a lot like he hates that we added Blackguards to BGEE and he wants his money back.

IN1

@Coriander

Yeah, I can understand the old man. Killing him 4 times per playthrough for xp gain is really evil. I'm amazed that in fact my actions during the playthrough fit Blacguard mentality from a RP point of view as well

EnterHaerDalis

This is cool, I'd love to challenge myself like this

Although you are one evil bastard. How much rep were you left with after killing the Watcher and Firebead?

What other stipulations do you play with? Max hit points on level? Insane difficulty?

The_Cheeseman

It would appear that murdering Elminster for exp is no longer possible. There is a new script for him in the Override folder that forces him to either drop a cow on you or polymorph you into a chicken and then vanish whenever he is attacked. I assume you could prevent that by breaking his script with confusion, but it severely limits the usefulness of the tactic. Oh well, abusing such an obvious exploit rather defeats the purpose if a hardcore challenge run, anyway.

EnterHaerDalis

The_Cheeseman said:

It would appear that murdering Elminster for exp is no longer possible. There is a new script for him in the Override folder that forces him to either drop a cow on you or polymorph you into a chicken and then vanish whenever he is attacked. I assume you could prevent that by breaking his script with confusion, but it severely limits the usefulness of the tactic. Oh well, abusing such an obvious exploit rather defeats the purpose if a hardcore challenge run, anyway.

lol

he's certainly hardcore about exploiting glitches

IN1

@EnterHaerDalis

It's not a glitch. Traditionally, many NPCs are killable in IE games, and killing them is actually very profitable, if you are ready to suffer the repercussions. That was always the case -- from BG1 to IWD2, and I don't see how killing Elminster incarnations in BG:EE is any different.

IN1

@The_Cheeseman

>Oh well, abusing such an obvious exploit rather defeats the purpose if a hardcore challenge run, anyway.

And what is the purpose, exactly? I thought it is to beat the game as quickly, smoothly and efficiently as possible under very difficult conditions. Minimum effort, maximum profit.

If you happen to think a hardcore run should be an exercise in masochism -- well, that's certainly your right, but allow me to say I don't share your philosophy.

rdarken

This is definitely going on my watch list! Prologue made me laugh pretty hard. Poor Winthrop: Runs out when you kill Firebead, runs back in when you kill the Watcher lol

The_Cheeseman

@IN1 Well, to each their own, I suppose, but I don't see much point in trying to set limitations for yourself to create a challenge and then abusing an obvious exploit to trivialize it. I mean, killing Elminster like that is essentially 100,000+ free exp with no actual risk, you may as well just use the CLUA console to give yourself exp. I am not saying there is anything particularly wrong with that as long as you're having fun, but it seems rather silly to cheat in order to overcome your own self-imposed challenge. If you're willing to use obvious exploits like that, you may as well point out that Buckly's Buckler allows you to instantly heal all damage you take in combat just by equipping it over and over again, thereby making pretty much any warrior class immortal after the first couple of levels. Doesn't seem all that fun to me.

IN1

@The_Cheeseman

Well, no need to hyperbolize in such a gross manner. Killing Elminster is only a convenient way to refrain from grinding basilisks. Cheating (via CLUA or obvious item abuse) is something else. I'm sure you understand the difference, but I also know very well what you are doing; my experience tells me it's pointless to argue with you (not you in particular, of course; rather with the constantly disappointed type in general) -- you are going to pretend there is no difference anyway

In short, I comprehend your position and intent, you understand mine, so let's end this pointless 'debate'.

IN1

Oh, by the way, regarding Blackguard. I've made a simple mod that adds the kit (transfers it, more like) to BG2: http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/1024-bgeeblk-bgee-blackguard-kit-for-bg2/

The_Cheeseman

I honestly don't see the difference between killing an NPC that you know does not fight back for exp and just using the CLUA console. The result is exactly the same: lots if reward without any risk. You can rationalize it however you like, but it's still cheating. Hence, why it was changed.

As I said before, I don't have any particular problem with cheating in a single player game like BG--if it's fun for you then more power to ya--but I do find it ironic that somebody who goes through the effort of recording a "hardcore" run and posting it on the forums would cheat. You seem fairly knowledgable about game mechanics and strategy, so why not show a legitament play through?

IN1

@The_Cheeseman

Well, it appears you've got a wrong idea about it all somehow. Probably because in the video it all looks so effortless... It took me a lot of time to figure out how to kill Elminsters (the first one is different from the others script-wise, by the way, so it's two very different approaches), and even more time -- to actually execute that. You seem to think I've learnt about this possibility by means of divine epiphany or that it is/was some kind of common knowledge You are wrong.

Once you know exactly what to do, it might look like a cakewalk. Trust me, in fact -- it's not. The first fight with Elminster is a very high-risk venture, one of the most dangerous in the game, to be honest. Basically, if he catches up to you (definitely possible, you both move at the same speed), you are dead. All it takes at level 1 or 2 is one hit.

MetaSieg

This is pretty great, well done. I would love to see how this character fares in BG2/TOB.

IN1

@MetaSieg

If there is interest, I can make a BG2 run with Blackguard (the kit is easily importable, as noted in this thread). The question, however, is: should I emulate an imported character from BG:EE (+1 Str, Dex, Con, Int, Cha, +3 Wis from different Tomes), or should I roll a new Blackguard for BG2?

Please note the actual BG2:EE experience will probably be a bit different. I doubt that the difference will be significant, though (at least, it will be felt much less than BG1 vs. BG:EE, since the engine used is basically the same).

ryuken87

With regards to killing Elminster, I think it comes down to deciding the rules to impose upon yourself at the start and then sticking to them. Then if you want to subscribe to such a challenge, good for you, if you don't agree then good for you too, make your own challenge.

Personnally I wouldn't subscribe to killing Elminster, especially four times, as it is something I would classify in the same category as the old fake talk bug for example. Since I am not doing any such challenge however (neither no-reloads or insane are my thing), it doesn't bother me.

I would say however, that while a solo no-reloads game is undoubtably a very hard and skillful thing to accomplish, it is less impressive than if you hadn't farmed over 100k of exp from Elminster.

P.S. I haven't actually watched the videos, only one bit of killing Elminster in Beregost.

IN1

@ryuken87

I'm playing a very evil character. It's only logical I kill that do-gooder wizard on sight :-P Come on, where is your RP spirit?

Seriously, though, there are more ways for easy xp gain in BG:EE (especially since it's a solo run). Farming basilisks, for example, is hardly any less rewarding, it just takes more time. I didn't want to do that, Drizzt, and the rest of the usual xp-leeching instances. Solo hardcore runs are always cheesy by definition: the game is not meant to be played this way, and the odds against you if you play it normally, by following the very same route you take as a party in a non-hardcore playthrough, are insurmountable.

The_Cheeseman

So, your rationalization for cheating is because otherwise it would be too difficult? Isn't the challenge the entire reason you do it? It's not called, "Easycore", after all.

IN1

@The_Cheeseman

Well, instead of wasting your time (as well as mine) on pointless comments, why don't you go on and record your own hardcore run, eh?

In any case, I won't reply to your comments anymore -- not a huge fan of circular arguments, especially not with the representatives of race 129 by BG:EE catalogue, sorry.

gunman

I find such experiments interesting to read, mostly to learn new things about game mechanics and exploits. But there is zero role playing in such experiments, in a role playing game. In all of my runs I have never attempted to kill Elminster or Drizzd because I can't play evil characters. Also killing Elminster multiple times is beyond ridiculousness. What I would find interesting would be an ironman solo run that would also make sense from a role playing perspective, following the story line and not going to kill bassilisks next stop from Candlekeep.

IN1

@gunman

I have to remind you that Blackguard is an epitome of evil. Also, I find it somewhat logical that Elminster, being a chosen of Mystra (a de facto demigod), can have multiple manifestations/clones/incarnations. I would not expect him to contact some low-level adventurer (albeit with huge potential) in person.