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The Bhaalspawn Ascension

Okay, I always wondered, and I wanted to see what peoples opinions were on it...

At the end of ToB as everyone and their grandmother knows, CHARNAME ascends (possibly) and becomes a God (maybe).
Now presumably if he/she is Evil aligned he/she will contest for the Throne of Murder with Cyric possibly dethroning Cyric and becoming the new Lord of Murder. Or perhaps he/she would contest for or be given a part of the overall portfolio of Death.

Seems fairly self explanatory to me.

But what about a good aligned CHARNAME?

What portfolio would a good aligned ascended CHARNAME possibly recieve given that he/she is a scion of murder?

Comments

  • MikkelMikkel Member Posts: 86
    Interesting question, I suppose it comes down to a good-aligned charname's motivations for ascending in the first place - whereas an evil one rather straightforwardly would be in it for personal power and/or bloodlust, there's got to be some more complex reasons why a good-aligned charname would be doing it.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    edited December 2012
    While the act of murder is considered to be inherently evil itself, Gods in the Realms can re-create their aspects in their own fashion. A good charname may become a non-evil aspect of murder and killing. Like, killing in self-defense. Or killing the evil and wicked to protect the innocent. Maybe even mercy-killing. Even the most lawful good, saint-like charname ends up having killed hundreds even thousands of enemies at that point.

    A good aligned charname may become the nightmare of all evil aligned people in the world when he ascends. Ethos like: 'If you have hurt and murdered innocents, fear because HE will find you, and murder you in your sleep!' or 'If you plan to murder innocents, be sure that in the end, you shall be the one murdered by our (all new) Lord of Murder!' yeah like some sort of a vengeance-retribution god. Still does not sound too goody goody, neutral at best. But this is what charname did in his days:look what Sarevok plotted and charname killed him. Same for other bosses in SoA and ToB. They all wanted to kill and murder others, and were murdered by the charname in return.
  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 526
    I suppose a good aligned Ascended CHARNAME could become a God of Retribution maybe?

    I don't know.

    To me there really doesn't seem to be a clear answer on the subject. That's why I am so interested in your' guys opinions.
  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660
    Wiki says that ascending presents the choice between becoming the new god of murder or a deity of "good and righteousness."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate_II:_Throne_of_Bhaal#Plot

    That's assuming, of course, that the good CHARNAME would ascend at all.
  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 526
    Yes but "Good and Rghteousness" isn't really a portfolio is it?
  • butcheredbutchered Member Posts: 16
    @Pantalion and pantaloons
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    To make you an example: in BG saga, Kelemvor (Legal Neutral) was the actual god of death, his predecessor was Myrkul (Neutral Evil). But they obviously ruled their domains in different ways.
    Playing NWN2: Mask of The Betrayer you can learn more about those changes.
  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 526
    I know that lol.

    Played it.

    Just wondering what portfolio CHARNAME would have... I mean while "death" can be taken to be good or bad. Murder is pretty specific isn't it?
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    Maybe he punishes murderers after their death lol
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    Murder, taking a sentient being's life, is one of the most powerful action someone can take. It should never be taken lightly or casually. It is controlled by the god Charname afterall. If it is used recklessly, wrongly, or without Charname's consent and approval, Charname's retribution will be terrible.
  • OperativeNLOperativeNL Member Posts: 146
    edited December 2012
    WARNING, EXTREME SPOILERS ABOUT ONE OF THE POSSIBLE ENDINGS OF BALDUR'S GATE: THRONE OF BHAAL!!!!!

    According to BG:ToB, this -could- happen:

    Your mortal essence fades away, as you embrace your divinity. Through friends and enemies, you have conquered your heritage, turning shadow to light, and now the infernal power of Bhaal no longer holds sway. You will take your place among the powers as a force of balance and good. It is the close of many things, but a new destiny stretches endlessly before you. There are greater evils to fight than you might have dared imagined, and sights among the planes that you had never thought possible. In the years to come, your name shall be a beacon in times of darkness. Tales of your life shall inspire and guide, while servents of darkness will flee your wrath. It is a legacy that will forever change the face of the realms.
  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 526
    It seems like Good Charname becomes the God of the Bounty Hunters then.

    Lol.
  • ScarsUnseenScarsUnseen Member Posts: 170
    How about the god of Unintentional Comedy and Badly Timed Flatulence. I think those portfolios are still open for grabs.
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125

    How about the god of Unintentional Comedy and Badly Timed Flatulence. I think those portfolios are still open for grabs.

    I would pray him.
  • ArcticArctic Member Posts: 76
    It depends of the charname , my neutral sorcerer will go for magic, death and life and a paladin can go for good and justice for example
  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 526
    edited December 2012
    @Arctic

    Except those portfolios are already filled lol.
  • QueynosQueynos Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 127
    edited December 2012
    I believe that in the forgotten realms if you get a god essence you ascend as a god but not necessarly with the same portfolio, you define yourself your portfolio so a good charname who ascend would become a god but his/her portfolio won't necessarly be murder. For example after killing Moander, god of rot and corruption, Finder Wivernspur ascended with the portfolio of cycles of life, transformation of arts, saurials and reckless fools.
    Another example would be Asmodeus who absorbed Azuth divine essence to ascend, Azuth portfolio was spellcasters and Asmodeus is the current god of sin
  • IllustairIllustair Member Posts: 878
    Pantalion said:

    God of Errand Running.

    That has got to be the funniest thing I've ever read in this forum. You, sir, are very much correct!
  • ScarsUnseenScarsUnseen Member Posts: 170
    Eh... depends on what edition and who the author is. In 2nd Edition, Cyric went on murder and portfolio theft spree, and Kelemvor kept the same portfolio as Myrkul, he just treated it differently.
  • ArcticArctic Member Posts: 76

    @Arctic

    Except those portfolios are already filled lol.

    depends of what edition ... if you go to 3.5 , to the gods book , you will find that you cant take the same portfolio of another god, but you can combine the ones of multiple goods.

    Cant be 2 death and magic goods, but can be a death and magic, a life and knowledge and a death and life.

  • DeucetipherDeucetipher Member Posts: 521
    My guess us that a good CHARNAME doesn't get a portfolio at all, initially. I think CHARNAME is just a mid-level divinity, something along the lines of a demigod. CHARNAME probably takes service with the Major God who best suits him/her.
  • TomeTome Member Posts: 466
    edited December 2012
    The epilogue makes it sound like you basically continue to do what you were doing before, simply on a divine level. I always imagine that my character became a wanderer, travelling through the Realms righting wrongs and looting loot.

    When BG2EE comes out, would anyone download a mod that attempts to make a FR canon-friendly version of your Ascension?
  • RiolathelRiolathel Member Posts: 330
    You should put a spoiler tag in the title.. i had to block my eyes on a few of these comments :P (haven't played BG2 yet)
  • MERLANCEMERLANCE Member Posts: 421
    I don't think that your portfolio would matter either way, because of the way the Forgotten Realms ruins itself about fifteen years later (Spellplague and whatnot). Theres no way is going to survive that, Cyric is going to come for you either to take back Murder, or to kill a feeble good god.
  • SirFrancealotSirFrancealot Member Posts: 56
    *tinfoil hat*

    Ok so bear with me here. My understanding of the Deities in forgotten realms is that they are empowered through two key sources: the number (and to a lesser extent, the fervency of belief) of their followers; and the portfolio they control fueled by the actions of mortals (regardless of the mortal's belief in the god whom controls the portfolio). If you played as a good aligned character, the morality behind all the killings made by you in the game were for morally righteous reasons. Your killing is justified, and therefor not murder. Ergo a good CHARNAME would not become a new god of murder, but of something like righteousness or duty.

    We know that when a god loses all its followers, its power is diminished to the point where they basically cease to exist. Amaunator is the key example of this (despite the issue behing greatly confused by Amaunator being reborn as lathander, but this is only revealed in 4E, significantly after the lore set in BG2). BG2 clearly shows Amaunator as being only semi-alive due to his undying followers in Athkatla's catacombs.

    Now here's where things get a little more obtuse, and I may be wrong here. The actions of any mortal, regardless of their patron god, at any time may directly align with a specific portfolio, and as such provide power to a Deity. Performing your duty? Helm gets some power. Murder someone? Cyric gets some power. Use magic? Mystra gets some power. The portfolio of gods gives them authority over the particular actions of mortals, and it makes sense that even without followers, gods can continue to exist as people still empower them through the portfolio.

    Now, with that context set, lets examine the ascension of CHARNAME at the end of BG2:TOB. You're a bhallspawn, and feared throughout the realm due to the untold devastation wrought by your siblings. Add to this you are the last man standing; all that fear is a distinct type of belief, and it's all focused on you now.

    Additionally, you've killed countless people, regardless of your alignment. Your morality behind these killings is key to determining the portfolio that your actions have been feeding. If you played as evil, a lust for power and love of killing would likely lead towards empowering of the portfolio of murder. If you were good, you were fighting to protect the people you love and bring peach and stability to the realms, empowering the portfolio of righteousness.

    Upon your elevation to godhood would require direct intervention by AO and the reassignment of portfolios to your control. It makes sense that AO would give you control of the portfolio that closest matches your actions in life.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    I 'd use my godly powers to find Irenicus' original soul somewhere and then use it to become an elven god. =D
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