I've been playing with rasaad so far and I must say that he works REALLY well as a backup npc. In combat he can use his great speed to reach archers and darts to disrupt enemy mages. 'Sides, I like him !
I personally like all of my NPC's to be in the starting line up... never had any need for "backup npc's." If backup npc means an npc that you babysit cause he can't handle his own in any combat situations than I agree, Rasaad is quite good at that.
I haven't played him yet. Though when I will I think about giving him the Staff of Striking. Which is an insane two hander with 1d6+9 dmg. Monk with staff kinda sounds awesome
Monks cannot use two handed weapons of any kind in BG.
@GoodSteve , I call a backup npc anyone who isn't a frontliner at lower levels- such as Imoen, Jaheira , Xan, Faldorn, Garrick, Safana... you mean you've never enjoyed any of them?
By the why, you've quoted me on something that someone else said.
While I agree that Rasaad is a bit underwhelming, do keep in mind that his stats make it quite obvious he will get some BGII buffing. I mean let's look at all 3 of the new NPCs' physical stats:
Dorn - 19 STR, 16 DEX, 14 CON He might go up a Dexterity point (probably not though), and undoubtedly his Constitution score will go up a point or two.
Neera - 11 STR, 17 DEX, 14 CON She will probably go up to a 15 or 16 Constitution, and possibly (not all that likely though) gain a Dexterity point.
Rasaad - 16 STR, 16 DEX, 14 CON What are the chances this guy *won't* go up in any of these, honestly? Probably a 15 or 16 Con and a 17 or 18 Dex at the very least.
You should be able to toggle his movement speed between fast and normal. It is very annoying to have to constantly babysit him to keep him from aggroing archers in front of the party. Perhaps a formation button as a future feature? It would make the entire party move at the normal speed when moved as a group.
@GoodSteve , I call a backup npc anyone who isn't a frontliner at lower levels- such as Imoen, Jaheira , Xan, Faldorn, Garrick, Safana... you mean you've never enjoyed any of them?
By the why, you've quoted me on something that someone else said.
Oh, I've enjoyed some of them (I don't know how anyone can enjoy Garrick for example) I just don't call them "backup npcs" nor have I heard them commonly referred to as such. When I hear backup npc it's more like "I'm using Imoen but if she gets chunked I'll use Safana as a backup."
"Xan cast Cloudkill and destroyed all the bandits before they were able to fire a single shot. Good thing we had him as a backup." Wha?
Thanks for pointing my misquote out, it has been fixed.
I just don't call them "backup npcs" nor have I heard them commonly referred to as such.
I take a page from baseball management and call them "utility players." They aren't part of the usual warrior-warrior-arcane-divine-rogue setup, but add value in specific skills or extra firepower.
I misused the word backup . I believe that Rasaad - just like a jaheira , or imoen, or Xan - has an enormous potential, but you need to use him in a strategic way until he gets tougher.
I'd like to point out that with the way stats work, summing them up like the OP did doesn't really say much.
For example, strength between 8 and 15 makes no difference whatsoever with regards to fighting ability. The only thing that changes in that range is weight allowance and a few item restrictions(some item types have a minimum strength requirement).
Ditto for dexterity, from 7 dex to 14, there's literally no difference whatsoever. Constitution is special in that some races gain saving throw bonuses from it, but if you are not one of those races, having a constitution score of 7 is the same as having one of 14.
Basically, what this all means is that for any type of fighter, the only thing that really matters is how many points "above 14"(above 15 for strength) a character has.
Take Khalid as an example, he has 15 strength, which confers a +0 to hit bonus, and a whopping +0 damage bonus. Which means that for all intents and purposes, he is no stronger than Imoen and her not-so-impressive 9 strength. The main difference being that he won't stop moving if you throw a full plate mail on him.
Or, to go a bit more in-depth, take Shar-Teel. Her strength is impressive, giving her +2 to hit and +3 to damage. Likewise, her dex gives her a -3 AC bonus, and a +2 to hit with missile weapons(the highest possible for a non-elf/halfling since it does not increase from 17->18 dex). Her constitution, while pitiful at 9, is literally no different from Kivan's(being 14 it gives him exactly +0 hit points, the same as Shar-Teel's).
All in all, AD&D attribute progression is weird as fuck. It's illogical and just plain bad which is likely why they changed it in 3rd edition to be a lot more streamlined and logical. Basically, from a computer gameplay perspective(as opposed to a pnp roleplaying perspective) having 7 dexterity is no different from having 14. Same with constitution(for non-dwarf, non-gnome and non-halfling characters anyway) and strength has no value other than weight and a few item restrictions between 8 and 15.
That being said, I personally think Rasaad could use a bit of loving(mostly because of just how silly low level monks are). However, the fact is that if you assume that the belt you find is his(since you find it during "his" quest), he's probable one of the most impressive fighter types in the game with regards to stats, simply because of how ludicrously good 19 strength is for a melee fighter.
However, the fact is that if you assume that the belt you find is his(since you find it during "his" quest), he's probable one of the most impressive fighter types in the game with regards to stats, simply because of how ludicrously good 19 strength is for a melee fighter.
I can hear it already. Rasaad + Big Fisted Belt. "I look forward to your insderrrrphurp-de-durrr!!" "Selune guides my crushing, crushing to goo!"
@Alsn *Sees intelligent post* *Sees that you only have 20 posts*
You are off to a good start here my friend. Good to have you here.
Heh, thanks for the compliment, I guess. :P
It just always really annoyed me how stats work in the two games. I never played pnp AD&D, but I reckon a DM could easily make the "midlevel" values matter quite a lot, so it's probably never been as big of a problem there.
But for the two games(and by extension, IWD 1, PS:T takes a lot of liberties with how stats work, so it works a lot better than the other games) the stats can be infuriating at times. Khalid looks really sweet on paper, but is actually a terrible fighter. His physical stats, while in total being among the highest in the game, give him absolutely pathetic bonuses. No bonus from strength at all and only -2 AC. His one saving grace is that he actually has a respectable constitution with +3 hp per level.
In the second game the developers realised a lot of this(I think) and adjusted stats to make some NPC's be a lot less useless in conjunction with the items boosting strength. In particular Jaheira getting 17 dex as she is even worse off than Khalid in the first game, but being a druid she has other uses.
However, the fact is that if you assume that the belt you find is his(since you find it during "his" quest), he's probable one of the most impressive fighter types in the game with regards to stats, simply because of how ludicrously good 19 strength is for a melee fighter.
I can hear it already. Rasaad + Big Fisted Belt. "I look forward to your insderrrrphurp-de-durrr!!" "Selune guides my crushing, crushing to goo!"
Haha, yea. Although to be fair he isn't all that smart to begin with!
I'd like to point out that with the way stats work, summing them up like the OP did doesn't really say much.
For example, strength between 8 and 15 makes no difference whatsoever with regards to fighting ability. The only thing that changes in that range is weight allowance and a few item restrictions(some item types have a minimum strength requirement).
Ditto for dexterity, from 7 dex to 14, there's literally no difference whatsoever. Constitution is special in that some races gain saving throw bonuses from it, but if you are not one of those races, having a constitution score of 7 is the same as having one of 14.
Basically, what this all means is that for any type of fighter, the only thing that really matters is how many points "above 14"(above 15 for strength) a character has.
Take Khalid as an example, he has 15 strength, which confers a +0 to hit bonus, and a whopping +0 damage bonus. Which means that for all intents and purposes, he is no stronger than Imoen and her not-so-impressive 9 strength. The main difference being that he won't stop moving if you throw a full plate mail on him.
Or, to go a bit more in-depth, take Shar-Teel. Her strength is impressive, giving her +2 to hit and +3 to damage. Likewise, her dex gives her a -3 AC bonus, and a +2 to hit with missile weapons(the highest possible for a non-elf/halfling since it does not increase from 17->18 dex). Her constitution, while pitiful at 9, is literally no different from Kivan's(being 14 it gives him exactly +0 hit points, the same as Shar-Teel's).
All in all, AD&D attribute progression is weird as fuck. It's illogical and just plain bad which is likely why they changed it in 3rd edition to be a lot more streamlined and logical. Basically, from a computer gameplay perspective(as opposed to a pnp roleplaying perspective) having 7 dexterity is no different from having 14. Same with constitution(for non-dwarf, non-gnome and non-halfling characters anyway) and strength has no value other than weight and a few item restrictions between 8 and 15.
That being said, I personally think Rasaad could use a bit of loving(mostly because of just how silly low level monks are). However, the fact is that if you assume that the belt you find is his(since you find it during "his" quest), he's probable one of the most impressive fighter types in the game with regards to stats, simply because of how ludicrously good 19 strength is for a melee fighter.
Great post, and fully agreed that 3rd ed is far more logical with the +1 bonus for every +2 increase in stats.
Ok, if we change the table I earlier posted to "Str-15/Dex-14/Con-14", ignoring /XX numbers for Str, and treating negative numbers as 0, since nobody has stats bad enough that they are penalised for it,
That updated list looks a lot more like how I unconsciously rank them. So yea, much better.
Again though, with the belt, he becomes pretty good. Particularly since the only good belts in the game provide specialized AC(meaning it doesn't compete in "fighting power" with gauntlets of weapon spec like the ogre power gauntlets do).
But yes, his base stats are indeed rather unimpressive.
However, you could say the same with any low strength NPC that's given the belt. Khalid becomes a far better fighter than Rasaad with the belt, as he has equal DEX and a considerably higher CON.
The main value that I see with Rasaad for BG1 is that he can stun mages with his fists. I don't rely on him to deliver that much damage. But when he can stop a mage from casting spells I find that useful. I'll generally have another more powerful nearby meleer finish off the mage. (There are of course other ways to stop mages, but using him is a fun one.)
I give him the gauntlets of dexterity and have him use the Shield amulet so that he's relatively hard to hit.
However, you could say the same with any low strength NPC that's given the belt. Khalid becomes a far better fighter than Rasaad with the belt, as he has equal DEX and a considerably higher CON.
Yes, very true. It's just that to me, having played BG1 innumerable times before, that belt is not something I'm used to having in the game so it just "feels" like it should belong to him.
You are, of course, right though. Khalid or anyone else for that matter would probably be pretty monstrous with the belt simply because of how amazing 19 strength is in this ruleset.
The main value that I see with Rasaad for BG1 is that he can stun mages with his fists. I don't rely on him to deliver that much damage. But when he can stop a mage from casting spells I find that useful. I'll generally have another more powerful nearby meleer finish off the mage. (There are of course other ways to stop mages, but using him is a fun one.)
I give him the gauntlets of dexterity and have him use the Shield amulet so that he's relatively hard to hit.
I haven't finished his quest yet.
I use Kivan for that. Bracers of Archery + Acid Arrows = dead mage.
Also, darts of stunning are way better than stunning fist at stunning things and it's ranged to boot.
Generally though, it all goes back to the fact that it's pretty damn hard to make a computer game based on a pen and paper rule set balanced on the idea that there's a DM to make judgement calls.
Also, darts of stunning are way better than stunning fist at stunning things and it's ranged to boot. ...
There's some excellent spells to incapacitate mages as well, such as Command Word: Die, Blindness, Glitterdust, Hold, and Rigid Thinking. Horror as well. I find enemy mages typically save versus Sleep, though, for some reason. Maybe it would be too overpowered if it knocked them out all the time.
Yes, very true. It's just that to me, having played BG1 innumerable times before, that belt is not something I'm used to having in the game so it just "feels" like it should belong to him.
You are, of course, right though. Khalid or anyone else for that matter would probably be pretty monstrous with the belt simply because of how amazing 19 strength is in this ruleset.
Kagain becomes a true beast with the belt, having 19 strength and 20 constitution. If you slap the Dex Guantlets on him (why wouldn't you?) he's truly formidable with 19/18/20 for his physical stats. With this set up he will be a stronger fighter than Charname for most of the game (until you find enough tomes to bring your stats in line with his.)
Comments
By the why, you've quoted me on something that someone else said.
Dorn -
19 STR, 16 DEX, 14 CON
He might go up a Dexterity point (probably not though), and undoubtedly his Constitution score will go up a point or two.
Neera -
11 STR, 17 DEX, 14 CON
She will probably go up to a 15 or 16 Constitution, and possibly (not all that likely though) gain a Dexterity point.
Rasaad -
16 STR, 16 DEX, 14 CON
What are the chances this guy *won't* go up in any of these, honestly? Probably a 15 or 16 Con and a 17 or 18 Dex at the very least.
But since monks can't dual-class, it's kind of sad. A monk-sorc, now...
The monk's fists are two-handed weapons (at least for the purpose of Two Handed Weapon Style). So. You know. That's cool.
"Xan cast Cloudkill and destroyed all the bandits before they were able to fire a single shot. Good thing we had him as a backup." Wha?
Thanks for pointing my misquote out, it has been fixed.
The game wasn't designed for Monks. lol. I assume we are all referencing the game of BG:EE
NPCS with 1 max stat:
Kivan
Dorn
Kagain
Shar-Teel
Minsc
NPCS without 1 max stat
Khalid (but has 16 dex and 17 con)
Ajantis (but has 17 str and 16 con)
Rasaad is the ONLY pure fighter class NPC without a 18 or even a 17 stat.
Hence the reason why I buffed his dex to 18. It's not like he's overpowered with 16/18/14 stats.
For example, strength between 8 and 15 makes no difference whatsoever with regards to fighting ability. The only thing that changes in that range is weight allowance and a few item restrictions(some item types have a minimum strength requirement).
Ditto for dexterity, from 7 dex to 14, there's literally no difference whatsoever. Constitution is special in that some races gain saving throw bonuses from it, but if you are not one of those races, having a constitution score of 7 is the same as having one of 14.
Basically, what this all means is that for any type of fighter, the only thing that really matters is how many points "above 14"(above 15 for strength) a character has.
Take Khalid as an example, he has 15 strength, which confers a +0 to hit bonus, and a whopping +0 damage bonus. Which means that for all intents and purposes, he is no stronger than Imoen and her not-so-impressive 9 strength. The main difference being that he won't stop moving if you throw a full plate mail on him.
Or, to go a bit more in-depth, take Shar-Teel. Her strength is impressive, giving her +2 to hit and +3 to damage. Likewise, her dex gives her a -3 AC bonus, and a +2 to hit with missile weapons(the highest possible for a non-elf/halfling since it does not increase from 17->18 dex). Her constitution, while pitiful at 9, is literally no different from Kivan's(being 14 it gives him exactly +0 hit points, the same as Shar-Teel's).
All in all, AD&D attribute progression is weird as fuck. It's illogical and just plain bad which is likely why they changed it in 3rd edition to be a lot more streamlined and logical. Basically, from a computer gameplay perspective(as opposed to a pnp roleplaying perspective) having 7 dexterity is no different from having 14. Same with constitution(for non-dwarf, non-gnome and non-halfling characters anyway) and strength has no value other than weight and a few item restrictions between 8 and 15.
That being said, I personally think Rasaad could use a bit of loving(mostly because of just how silly low level monks are). However, the fact is that if you assume that the belt you find is his(since you find it during "his" quest), he's probable one of the most impressive fighter types in the game with regards to stats, simply because of how ludicrously good 19 strength is for a melee fighter.
You are off to a good start here my friend. Good to have you here.
"I look forward to your insderrrrphurp-de-durrr!!"
"Selune guides my crushing, crushing to goo!"
It just always really annoyed me how stats work in the two games. I never played pnp AD&D, but I reckon a DM could easily make the "midlevel" values matter quite a lot, so it's probably never been as big of a problem there.
But for the two games(and by extension, IWD 1, PS:T takes a lot of liberties with how stats work, so it works a lot better than the other games) the stats can be infuriating at times. Khalid looks really sweet on paper, but is actually a terrible fighter. His physical stats, while in total being among the highest in the game, give him absolutely pathetic bonuses. No bonus from strength at all and only -2 AC. His one saving grace is that he actually has a respectable constitution with +3 hp per level.
In the second game the developers realised a lot of this(I think) and adjusted stats to make some NPC's be a lot less useless in conjunction with the items boosting strength. In particular Jaheira getting 17 dex as she is even worse off than Khalid in the first game, but being a druid she has other uses.
Ok, if we change the table I earlier posted to "Str-15/Dex-14/Con-14", ignoring /XX numbers for Str, and treating negative numbers as 0, since nobody has stats bad enough that they are penalised for it,
We get:
Kagain: 1/0/6 = 7
Dorn: 4/2/0 = 6
Shar-teel: 3/3/0 = 6
Kivan: 3/3/0 = 6
Minsc: 3/1/1 = 5
Khalid: 0/2/3 = 5
Ajantis: 2/0/2 = 4
Rasaad: 1/2/0 = 3
Yeah, he's still the worst.
Again though, with the belt, he becomes pretty good. Particularly since the only good belts in the game provide specialized AC(meaning it doesn't compete in "fighting power" with gauntlets of weapon spec like the ogre power gauntlets do).
But yes, his base stats are indeed rather unimpressive.
I give him the gauntlets of dexterity and have him use the Shield amulet so that he's relatively hard to hit.
I haven't finished his quest yet.
You are, of course, right though. Khalid or anyone else for that matter would probably be pretty monstrous with the belt simply because of how amazing 19 strength is in this ruleset.
Generally though, it all goes back to the fact that it's pretty damn hard to make a computer game based on a pen and paper rule set balanced on the idea that there's a DM to make judgement calls.