Do shapeshifted druids gain benefits from STR and CON > 16?

Singularite

I was thinking of running an avenger or shapeshifter and dual-classing to fighter. Now when you shapeshift you get some bonuses to strength and the like... Do shapeshifted druids gain benefits from STR and CON > 16? beacuse normaly thats limited to fighter types.

So if I were to dual class to fighter would I get more benefit from these forms.... or when shapeshifted do you gain fighter like high STR, CON, etc bonuses anyways?

Thanks!!

elminster

"Do shapeshifted druids gain benefits from STR and CON > 16? beacuse normaly thats limited to fighter types."

Constitution bonus is limited to fighters (there are exceptions to this but none that relevant to what you are asking about), strength however gives you the same bonuses regardless of your class.


"So if I were to dual class to fighter would I get more benefit from these forms?"

Depends, if the form you are looking at has less than 17 constitution, which a lot of them do, then only in your base thaco would you see an additional benefit to using the forms as some kind of druid -> fighter dual class. Unless it is one of the bear forms you aren't going to see any additional benefits from a health standpoint if you dual to a fighter (the bear forms both have 18 constitution).

Alsn

Your "own" str/dex/con are entirely substituted when you shapeshift into forms. For example, shapeshifting into a sword spider as an avenger will actually lower your constitution(and as a result, your hit points) if you created a character with the "standard" 16 con. If you however have less than 16 constitution normally, shapeshifting into something more bulky like a bear would increase your health. However, bears having 18/00 strength gain all the benefits to +hit and +damage that you would expect to see from such a value of strength(as exceptional strength is not a fighter exclusive thing, it's only fighter exclusive in the sense that other classes do not get it at character creation).

Hit points I'm not sure of how that would work if say, a dual class druid->fighter shifts into a bear(which has more than 16 con) because that's an issue with dual classes. I don't know if you actually get a "fighter level" hit point bonus if you dual class from a druid or if if you just keep the hit points you gained as a druid and gain no extra bonus for those initial 9 levels(unless you dualed before druid level 9). You do *not* get any extra hit points from shape shifting into bear as just a druid however(just tested it with my avenger, 88 hp both before and after gaining 18 con from going into bear), so the question is if dual classing into a fighter would enable the >16 con bonus somehow, but I doubt it.

Edit: I just tested it, my 17 con avenger dual classed into a fighter did *not* gain any extra hit points upon shapeshifting into a brown bear which has a con of 18. This even though 17->18 con should give you an extra hp per level as a fighter class. So I can conclusively say that your own constitution only matters in the sense that if you have *less* than 16, you can gain extra health through shifting into bear, but you would still lose health by shifting into something more delicate like a spider. Dual classing into a fighter does not change this.

Singularite

Wow. thank you both for your thoughtful and well researched answers. ...While I've got you guys here... Anybody know what the wild shaped claw/paw/bite attacks count as for weapon proficency? I heard that shapeshifter druids paws count as daggers? so that I know what to master in when I dual class to fighter.