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Magical plate mail - what's the point?

RiolathelRiolathel Member Posts: 330
edited December 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
When you can slap on a ring/cloak/necklace of protection and get the same AC bonus as well as saving throw bonuses. With a magical armor equipped you cannot equip any of those items, but with ankheg or full plate mail you receive the same bonuses+ the saving throws(and even greater if you get the +2 cloak/ring) as plate mail +3 or full plate mail +1.

It's a little frustrating for me cus i get excited when i see magical plate mail but then i remember i have rings and necklaces already doing that job better and there is never a situation where i have my ring/necklace/cloak slot all filled with other types of magical items not related to protection.

I understand the magical ones have less weight (so does ankheg). But chances are you'll have 1-2 characters with 18/xx strength. So weight really isn't much of an issue.
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Comments

  • szbszb Member Posts: 220
    You can give the rings/cloacks/necklaces to your other party members.
  • IgnatiusIgnatius Member Posts: 624
    Well, you're quite right actually.

    I was going to mention weight as an issue - although the ankheg is light. Having the ankheg armor as non-magical makes it by far the best armor in the game, and so easily available. Am not too happy with that change tbh...

    The other reason for wearing a magical armor is to free up one slot for a ring/necklace/cloak. This might be relevant towards the end game when you have gathered enough such powerful items, although I hate no to enjoy my +1 bonus to all saving throws.
  • IgnatiusIgnatius Member Posts: 624
    Tanthalas said:


    What BG1 and BG2 (and also BGEE) should have done was allow you to wear magical armor and those rings/cloaks/necklaces at the same time but only apply the largest bonus.

    interesting idea

  • RiolathelRiolathel Member Posts: 330
    edited December 2012
    szb said:

    You can give the rings/cloacks/necklaces to your other party members.

    the issue is there are like three rings of princes (+1) three amulets of protection(+1). I believe there are two +1 cloaks. one +2 ring, and one +2 cloak. I have 4 members wearing platemail.. all of them have one of these items equipped and all of them have equal or better AC than they would with magical plate mail + the saving throws..

    My mages also have one of these items equipped

    It might be better for your AC to use magical splint/scale mail depending on how your saving throws are but that's why i'm mainly talking about plate mails here. With the leather armors you are most likely going to pick the +3 shadow armor or magical studded. I still give my mages the rings over archmages because the bracers +dex are good enough ac and i'd rather have better saves and elemental protection (neera basically takes no electrical damage)
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited December 2012
    Armor +1, etc I guess are more useful in BG2 where you have more cases where it makes sense to use your rings/amulet slots for more useful rings/amulets.
  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    In BG1 magical armor is a downgrade if you have rings of protection. But in BG2 you will get armor with some serious enchantments, making the missing bonus on saving rolls less of a pain.
  • RiolathelRiolathel Member Posts: 330
    That's my point.. i'm only speaking of BG:EE here.

    Tbh i've put off playing BG2 until the EE comes out.. I've made a character in it but i never finished the game :(.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    If at any point you have Full Plate +3, it's overall superior to Full Plate plus Ring +2, but no, magical mundane plate mail is rarely worthwhile, especially if you have a low amount of competition on Ring Slots.

    If, however, you have the Claw and the Baldy Cloak and the Ring of Wizardry and the Greenstone Amulet equipped, suddenly having +3 Plate becomes very handy.
  • gokkegokke Member Posts: 46
    BG Tweaks = U can wear all! :) and V 11 is out so it works perfectly ( or well no bugs in my playthrough so far) almost through game
  • NukeninNukenin Member Posts: 327
    Riolathel said:

    Nukenin said:

    Wizard Slayer

    So magical plate mail is in BG for one class kit that wasn't even in the original game?
    We're only speaking of BG:EE here. :D There may indeed not have been a "point" to it in BG1, but now there is.

    However, to the broader question: Magical plate is in the game because it's Dungeons & Dragons, and Dungeons & Dragons has magical plate.

    If you don't follow that, then don't worry. It's not going to hurt you. You can safely ignore it or sell it at your leisure, and wear your rings and other fancy baubles with the mundane plate.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,420
    There's often choices to make on exactly what equipment you want to use and what you want to sell. I like heavy tank parties (usually four heavy armor wearers) so I may need more sorts of heavy protection than you do if you like more mages and thieves. But that often means I'm snatching up every suit of heavy armor I find until quite late in the game.

    There's also the possibility of non-magical armor being destroyed (it might have just been a mod for BG, I don't recall). But magical armor should be far more resistant to being trashed, just as it is in PNP AD&D.
  • IgnatiusIgnatius Member Posts: 624
    Kirkor said:


    Nope. Ankheg is much worse than Full Plate.
    You can compare those two armors in your characters Record screen.
    There are some bonus stats, like protection against damage (slashing, piercing etc.), and full plate is the best in those stats.
    So the best combo is Full Plate and Ring +2.

    You're quite right actually, but to equip Full Plate you need STR 15 and being able to carry such load around. Plus the class restriction is more severe than ankheg, which also, is free of charge. But I also prefer the look of an equipped full plate, no doubt!
    Kirkor said:


    Ankheg Plate is good only for characters with low strength, like Viconia, who can't wear full plates or normal plates.

    Yep. Or when you just have STR 15, or 16, but cannot afford to carry such a heavy armor. And obviously, for... druids.
  • RiolathelRiolathel Member Posts: 330
    edited December 2012
    My point still remains valid.. If you have full plate mail and a ring/cloak/necklace that offers +1 ac +1saving throws there is no point in magical plate mail

    Ignatius said:

    Kirkor said:


    Nope. Ankheg is much worse than Full Plate.
    You can compare those two armors in your characters Record screen.
    There are some bonus stats, like protection against damage (slashing, piercing etc.), and full plate is the best in those stats.
    So the best combo is Full Plate and Ring +2.

    You're quite right actually, but to equip Full Plate you need STR 15 and being able to carry such load around. Plus the class restriction is more severe than ankheg, which also, is free of charge. But I also prefer the look of an equipped full plate, no doubt!
    Kirkor said:


    Ankheg Plate is good only for characters with low strength, like Viconia, who can't wear full plates or normal plates.

    Yep. Or when you just have STR 15, or 16, but cannot afford to carry such a heavy armor. And obviously, for... druids.
  • AlsnAlsn Member Posts: 97
    edited December 2012
    There are a few exceptions, but yea, in general non-magical armour is just plain better than magical. But for thieves, the shadow armour is pretty good(since it's studded and +3, making it equivalent to hide armour with a +2 protection ring/cloak but with a stealth bonus).

    But generally, yes, magical armour is pretty useless. It's only ever useful on characters who have good replacements for the protection rings/cloaks/amulets or if your other characters are using the better ones(ring +2 or cloak +2) such that you would get better AC through a magical option.

    Also, for barbarians/bards, Drizzt's armour is by far the best choice in the game but that seems more like an exception to the rule than anything else. Bards can also cast ghost/spirit armour while maintaining their spellcasting ability so using Drizzt's chain seems redundant for them.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Alsn said:

    Also, for barbarians/bards, Drizzt's armour is by far the best choice in the game but that seems more like an exception to the rule than anything else. Bards can also cast ghost/spirit armour while maintaining their spellcasting ability so using Drizzt's chain seems redundant for them.

    Thieves and Rangers both benefit from being able to stealth in his chain.
  • valkyvalky Member Posts: 386
    @Alsn
    ..and hide armor is the only (!) leather armor, which gives you penalties to your thieving skills, so it's not really a good choice for a thief :D

    Else there is no point of magical armor in BGEE, cause you usually miss at least the saving throw bonus from ring/amulet/cloak, which is more important than to just have the same AC with a magical armor. Given that there is a ring + cloak of prot+2 ...

    It matters really only in BG2 with a lot of items, that can be worn despite having an enchanted armor + the abundant items that give you saving throw bonus anyway (despite the high level bonus...)
  • AlsnAlsn Member Posts: 97
    Pantalion said:

    Alsn said:

    Also, for barbarians/bards, Drizzt's armour is by far the best choice in the game but that seems more like an exception to the rule than anything else. Bards can also cast ghost/spirit armour while maintaining their spellcasting ability so using Drizzt's chain seems redundant for them.

    Thieves and Rangers both benefit from being able to stealth in his chain.
    Ah, I didn't realise that it didn't count as chain mail. Nevertheless, it doesn't change the fact that it's pretty much the only magical armour in the game worth wearing other than the shadow armour.
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,439
    Tanthalas said:

    Riolathel still has a point though, the rings/cloaks/necklaces + non-magical armor combos are better because they also improve your saving throws.

    The PnP option of 'Wear Multiple Protection Items' from BG2 Tweaks does just this. You can change the ring/amulet/cloak protection items to just provide save bonuses and then wear them with magical armor, the same way they stack in PnP.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Of course, if they enforced armour breaking like weapons do, I guarantee that everyone and their sibling would be clamouring for magical armours at the earliest opportunity.
  • AlsnAlsn Member Posts: 97
    Pantalion said:

    Of course, if they enforced armour breaking like weapons do, I guarantee that everyone and their sibling would be clamouring for magical armours at the earliest opportunity.

    Or it would just make ankheg plate even more popular since it's not made out of iron. :P
  • SirCumferenceSirCumference Member Posts: 35
    edited December 2012
    Pretty sure in BG2 it's actually better to wear some magical plate + balduran helm + cloak of the sewers + various rings providing resistances or other bonuses depending on class (rings of wizard spells or cleric spells) and forgo the rings/cloaks of protection. I think there is also that cloak of reflection which is pretty nice.

    Saving throws are nice but you start to get resistances to elements and other things with magical plate from a dragon (fire resist) or what have you combined with other accessories it can end up being a better combo. Same thing for BGEE, if you are playing a cleric/mage multi maybe you want to take the rings for more spells for both classes and maybe an alternate cloak and amulet as well relying on your spell defenses and positioning to protect you from any saving throws you might fail.

    In any case their are reasons to take magical armor in a lot of situations.
  • StrayedMonkeyStrayedMonkey Member Posts: 146
    you can wear 1 magical plate with ring +2 in BGEE...its at the VERY VERY end of the game and is laying on the floor before the final battle...but you can wear ring+2 with it...
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    @Ignatius I actually disagree, I feel that having Ankeg be NON-MAGICAL...is accurate. It's just the shell of a giant insect masterfully tempered into an armor by a smithy. It's not enchanted. Also there are two obtainable sets of Ankeg armor...the easter egg in Naskel and the one you can craft which you have to wait several days for and pay for. Between the two not everyone can wear it etc. It covers a lot of party ground, but if you've got more than two fighters you're still going to be buying some full plate eventually. I think that ankeg was rather useless in the previous version of the game because you would aways be trying to figure out ways to give party members full plate and and just use your strongest characters as pack mules. It's a lot more flexible on your inventory this way, doesn't make for the item being magical for no reason, and it's kind of a unique item that someone on a first playthrough might never discover either way.
  • IgnatiusIgnatius Member Posts: 624
    @Debaser: I hear what you're saying about it being crafted naturally, you're probably right. Are dragon armor magical in BG2? can't remember now, have not played the sequel in a while... before BG:EE ankheg armors used to be a natural choice for Druids anyway. Will Taerum forge more than 1, if you bring him more heads?
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    @Ignatius Dragon Scale Armors are Magical I believe...but then again those are creatures of high magic...it's more believable than an insect, though I wouldn't have a problem with them being treated as non-magical for the same reason. Taerum only forges the one I believe...I will see if he'd be down to make one more today though since I'm planning to play a bit today...*shrug*.
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