Bards and songs..whats the point?

etagloc

soo i was playing some black pits, and decided to try out a bard in my party..but i dont really get the point of the bard song, it seems like any action removes the song. So all you can do is stand still, and do nothing? so unless you are out og spells, its pretty useless. or am I doing something wrong? why even add a weapon?

ajwz

Sadly very little point to regular bards song. Some of the bard kits have pretty good songs though

Ligg

You can make your bard invisible and they can play and sing all they like without being attacked by enemies. This is the only real benefit. A jester is a good one as the songs can knock out enemies very effectively.
In IWD bard songs broke invisibility. But one of them offered group regeneration.

etagloc

yes, but it still dosn't seem like its worth it. .. oh well ; )

Xiviriel

Bard songs are good for remove fear. If you put an immunity to fear item on your bard, if any of your party members get fear just click the song and it will vanish with the round, no casting neccesarry. Thats about its only use though.
Bards are mainly good for high damage spells

ZanathKariashi

For one, it's not implemented properly. It's supposed to have a round/level duration, but takes 3 rounds of singing to activate...so under 3, it's worse then now, at 3 it's the about same, and as you go higher in level it would actually become useful since you could buff up the party, then attack for 7 rounds at level 10.

mlitano

Use the bard as an offensive spell caster and range attacker. The song is situational. If you do not plan on doing anything but the song on your bard you should probably roll a different class in your party.

TJ_Hooker

One of the items in the "optional but cool" component of the BG2 fixpack mod changes the bard song so it actually gives a bonus to luck as is implied in the original description. This would make it at least somewhat useful. It's currently listed as "stuff that might work" in the mod compatibility thread though, so I guess using it is at your own risk.

Oxford_Guy

Skalds are my favourite bard-like bard (blades are practically a different class), the bard song effect is actually very good and scales, they aldo get +1 to hit/damage and only lose out on reduced pick pockets (but not lore).

IMHO The best thing about bards, though is that they level very quickly, so can cast spells that scale well at higher levels than most other mages (dispel magic, magic missile, spook. chromatic orb, lots of others).

UnknownQuantity

I've always thought they were one of the worst classes. They get pick pockets which isn't very useful in this game and can be covered by a normal rogue. They get high lore for identifying items. This is somewhat useful, but sooner or later you will pickup the identify spell on your mages and you can also pay to have items identified. They can wear armor, but can't cast spells while wearing it? What is the point of letting them wear armor? They don't get any extra attacks and can't even specialize in weapons. Their thac is the same as a rogue. Being a jack of all trades it should be more on par with a cleric and druid. As mentioned the bard song is nice, but who wants their character standing there playing it all the time? I just don't believe the class is implemented very well. It might be useful in PnP, but in BG multi classes are a lot more versatile.

Oxford_Guy

UnknownQuantity said:

I've always thought they were one of the worst classes. They get pick pockets which isn't very useful in this game and can be covered by a normal rogue. They get high lore for identifying items. This is somewhat useful, but sooner or later you will pickup the identify spell on your mages and you can also pay to have items identified. They can wear armor, but can't cast spells while wearing it? What is the point of letting them wear armor?

There a a number of magic armours they can wear in BG2 and in BGEE there is a suit of elven chain (which currently is meant to drop, but doesn't, though you can CLUA it in after the encounter where it's meant to). You can cast spells wearing that. There's also the Shield Amulet in Nashkel Carnival, which is relatively cheap and rechargable.

UnknownQuantity said:

They don't get any extra attacks and can't even specialize in weapons. Their thac is the same as a rogue. Being a jack of all trades it should be more on par with a cleric and druid. As mentioned the bard song is nice, but who wants their character standing there playing it all the time? I just don't believe the class is implemented very well. It might be useful in PnP, but in BG multi classes are a lot more versatile.

I agree they're not the strongest class, but can be fun to be play if you like a different game. As I said, they're main benefit is that they level quickly - e.g. a level 1 fighter/mage requires 4,500 Xp to level both classes, a Bard 1,250!

Bugrat

It depends on your play style I suppose. I started BG:EE with a Skald, planning to take the character through BG2 as well, but now I'm probably going switch careers in BG2. It's a fun enough character, but I find myself never using the bard song.

I'm pretty much playing him like an archer type fighter/mage, using archery alone 75% of the time. I should just go f/m instead, because even though the Skald is a pretty good archer with the +hit and +damage, the f/m has to be better for that role.

ZanathKariashi

An easier way to look at a skald is to add up the total number of attacks from all the other party members, time it by the skald song's + damage mod. That's his personal damage contribution per round singing. It usually ends up about 18-27 damage per round at lvl 1.

PnP vanilla Bard song is supposed to give +1 hit/damage, +1 saves, +2 Morale at all levels. Effect a radius of 10 ft per level, and last 1 round per level. It's currently massively nerf'd...which considering that's their unique skill...is pretty damn bad. Also all Rogue-type characters are supposed to be auto-matically proficient in dual-wielding, and be able to master the style, if they desire, so their offensive punch is also lower then it should be.

Currently only the level 21 version does that. The 1-14 version just gives a + 1 luck bonus to morale. And 15-20 gives + 1 to hit and +1 to morale.

Allbrother

In BG2 you can stock up on project image scrolls and let them do the singing while you fight, cast spells, whatever

However, I have no idea how many of those can be found in the game

Tanthalas

ZanathKariashi said:

Currently only the level 21 version does that. The 1-14 version just gives a + 1 luck bonus to morale. And 15-20 gives + 1 to hit and +1 to morale.

Nope, the vanilla Bard (and BGEE Bard) has never given any bonuses besides removing fear and setting morale to 10.

Oxford_Guy

Tanthalas said:

ZanathKariashi said:

Currently only the level 21 version does that. The 1-14 version just gives a + 1 luck bonus to morale. And 15-20 gives + 1 to hit and +1 to morale.

Nope, the vanilla Bard (and BGEE Bard) has never given any bonuses besides removing fear and setting morale to 10.

That's the main reason I prefer a Skald, the +1 to hit and damage bonus is nice too

Oxford_Guy

etagloc said:

soo i was playing some black pits, and decided to try out a bard in my party..but i dont really get the point of the bard song, it seems like any action removes the song. So all you can do is stand still, and do nothing? so unless you are out og spells, its pretty useless. or am I doing something wrong? why even add a weapon?

BTW at least with the Skald, I discovered recently that if playing bard song (for at least a round before, I think, possibly more) you can still fire a ranged weapon (possibly even attack in melee) or cast a quick spell, then resume singing *without the song effect being interrupted*, and can repeat this. The Skald him/herself benefits from the Skald song attack bonus when used like this. It requires a little careful micromanagement, but I don't mind doing this so much with CHARNAME.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Oxford_Guy

Bhaaldog said:

It is rather a shame that you cannot fight while singing...

Well you can, a bit, see my previous post...

Allbrother

This again?
Vhailor's helm and Mislead are the point

Oxford_Guy

Silchas said:

This again?
Vhailor's helm and Mislead are the point

Perhaps (e.g. see: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/258273-baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/54980757?page=2 and http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/258273-baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/52675167?page=5 ), but a Bard can only use Vhailors Helm once the UAI HLA us acquired, so well into ToB:

http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/equipment/helmets.php#null

Vhailors Helm

Description: This helmet was worn by a mysterious warrior named Vhailor. The warrior was destroyed while helping a creature known as the 'Nameless one'.

STATISTICS:

Special Abilities (once per day): cast simulacrum
Armor Class Bonus: 1
Weight: 2
Not Usable By:
Mage
Bard
Thief

Oxford_Guy

Oxford_Guy said:

Silchas said:

This again?
Vhailor's helm and Mislead are the point

Perhaps (e.g. see: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/258273-baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/54980757?page=2 and http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/258273-baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/52675167?page=5 ), but a Bard can only use Vhailors Helm once the UAI HLA us acquired, so well into ToB:

http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/equipment/helmets.php#null

Vhailors Helm

Description: This helmet was worn by a mysterious warrior named Vhailor. The warrior was destroyed while helping a creature known as the 'Nameless one'.

STATISTICS:

Special Abilities (once per day): cast simulacrum
Armor Class Bonus: 1
Weight: 2
Not Usable By:
Mage
Bard
Thief

Also this:

http://www.ironworksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57312

"Step 1. Have a skald or enhanced song bard in your party (or 2 or more)
Step 2. Wear Vhailor's Helm and cast simulacrum
Step 3. Have the bard and simulacrum cast mislead
Step 4. Have the bard, the simulacrum and the 2 illusions sing the bard song
Step 5. Have fun with +16 to hit, damage and AC (plus the immunities and +20 magic resistance if enhanced) for the ENTIRE party."

Of course this is BG2 only...