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Evil alternatives

DougPiranhaDougPiranha Member Posts: 50
Maybe this was mentioned in one of hundreds request threads, but here goes anyway.

One thing that BG lacks is options for evil parties. There are many +1 reputation quests that give lot of XP and cool items, while only evil deed with worthwhile gains is killing Drizzt. What I'm suggesting is adding evil solutions to existing quests with adequate rewards, and maybe even some new evil quests. This is also a good way to throw in some new items. Bioware obviously understood this since in SoA there were (almost) equal opportunities for both styles of play, so I hope BGEE will receive the same treatment.

Comments

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    You're right @DougPiranha, this has been requested a lot already, many times by me XD! Let's just hope that BG:EE balance good/evil (maybe neutral too, altrough this can be difficult to archieve).
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    It would be great to have more dialogue choices but I'm not sure if they are allowed to do that. Hopefully the games release encourages fan mods that add in more options.
  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    Yeah this must be done along with more balancing towards evil parties. It is just to annoying to play evil characters. Flaming fists haunt you, being a mercenary results in a positive reputation change e.g. freeing the Nashkell mines from Mulahey. And dont forget about the paladin that attacks your evil character, while you are unable to respond, unless you want to go cause a mass rampage among the townsfolk.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    @aXidal, the answer is no, as good and evil are extremes, if not done propelly the balance can result into an equilibrium between the extremes, but a no change to neutral acts (unseless you see neutral acts as evil sometimes and good other times).
  • TauronTauron Member Posts: 22
    If truly evil char would be worth while playing that would be something like "sarevok" schemes style char. So far evil playstyle is bloodthirsty warrior/thief and insane mage/cleric style. There is just not enough options ingame to make smart evil.
  • e3r4t5yne3r4t5yn Member Posts: 42
    yeah, the well thought-out evil pass is one that's missing for now... I suppose many of us would highly appreciate evil alternatives to the existing quest
  • DrayenDrayen Member Posts: 127
    edited July 2012
    One thing that has amazed me in BG2 for a game that you can make good and evil characters alike, is the absurd lack of evil content. As a truly evil character, i'd probably turn away most "good quest", or lose so many items because i'd just kill them instead. There are few quests like giving the deed to firkraag, poisoning the durids instad, and killing the silver dragon for the skin, but it pales in comparison to the rewards of being actually evil, to the point that i've never bothered actually making an evil character.
  • ElectricMonkElectricMonk Member Posts: 599
    @Tanthalas There is a very similar discussion to this one from July 2, in case you want to merge them:
    Evil alternatives

    @Drayen I do agree that this is one area of the game that is clearly lacking, and some more options/rewards for evil decisions definitely wouldn't hurt.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    edited July 2012
    @jaysl659

    Thanks.

    Merged the threads.
  • HoboslayerHoboslayer Member Posts: 2
    How about implementing separate, special reputation meters for Good, Neutral, and Evil factions? Then have special vendors/quests open up once you've built up enough points in the respective meters. The normal reputation counter would still apply, so the Flaming Fist would still come after you eventually, but you could build up special vendor / quest points in the process of doing all that evil.

    This would give special incentive to play an character evilly.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Trent Oster's tweeted about toning down the Flaming Fist pursuit a bit IIRC.

    I know the only quests that would be affected at present are X & Y because the original content's going to be largely unchanged. However, evil opions would be great. As Tauron said, smart evil options would be best. Manipulative, insidious evil options hehehe.

    As an aside: I'm actually quite a nice person. Sometimes taking a morally gray (or pitch black) path is just fun.
  • DrayenDrayen Member Posts: 127
    Yea.. after clearing BG2 so many times, i've never felt any incentive to clear the game as an evil character, you just miss out on too much, and most of the evilness seems to be "give me more money"

  • PlasticGolemPlasticGolem Member Posts: 98
    Most of the evil choices in Baldur's Gate are of the chaotic stupid type: psychopathic, sadistic and essentially self-destructive.

    A simple way to implement a more rational, self-interested evil path into the existing game structure would be to require selfless acts in exchange for reputation increases: you would only get the +1 reputation if you refused the reward or gave up something important to help others. Otherwise, you'd get the mercenary's reward of gold + items, but your reputation wouldn't improve, or the evil path of forcing an even greater reward but with a reputation loss. (I got what I needed from Cloakwood mine; now how much will you give me to not deliberately flood the place and kill everyone as I leave?)

    In order for this to work, the ability to buy back reputation at temples would also have to be limited.
  • LeoncerLeoncer Member Posts: 3
    I disagree with the neutral point mentioned above. I feel neutral characters are great for fitting into either a good or evil party and can fulfil a role in either party where a required good/evil character is lacking (much like Haer'dalis fits into an evil party in BG2). Realistically, a party of neutrally minded people would never get anything done.
  • Syntia13Syntia13 Member Posts: 514
    I agree wholeheartedly! How about we toss some ideas around?

    The most obvious evil deed in BG2 would be to get in on the slave trade instead of busting it.
    There is also a black lotus smuggling (as witnessed at the gate interaction) and secret room for smoking it in Copper Coronet. Why can't a Bahlspawn become a Drug Lord, I ask?
    (additionally, after getting Nalia's keep, you could force her to marry you to strengthen your position, then proceed to abuse your power in some political plot, AND you could put the cellar/dungeon to it's proper use - to stuff your enemies there! ... or to stash the cargo - slaves and drugs...)

    I don't think I ever saw any evidence of slavers or drug dealers in BG1, but it could apply.
    BG1 specific misdeeds:
    - instead of going down to the sewers to find an already dead body for the necromancer, an evil PC could just kidnap/murder random citizens, and make it into a long-term contract.
    - You could take Sky into your party, and then blackmail her father for cash in exchange for her 'safe return'.
    - You could lead Bronwyn to that basilisc enamoured mage and then turn on her, helping the mage to petrify her again.

  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @Syntia13

    It wasn't Mutamin that petrified Branwen, it was Tranzig, a mage you can encounter in Beregost in Chapter 3.
  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    edited July 2012
    Synthia13 makes some cool suggestions. And being a one men army carnage terrorizing just everything is what CE is about. So let the blood be splattered:D And give me the option to chop of aeries head please + a microwave for Boo:D
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Smart evil should have some kind of long-term goal. Sort of "yeah, I'll rescue your dog, but you must sign this contract gifting me a bit of your mortality" (+2HP & -1 rep, or 10 evil points to be redeemed for special abilities down the line). Admittedly this is more of a mod request than anything else but it would give evil chars a solid reward & incentivise powergamers to roleplay.
  • paulsifer42paulsifer42 Member Posts: 267
    @covino How about, "I'll kill the big bad guy, so I can be the big bad guy myself?"
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    @Corvino an evil Main char is not a devil, he's still human, just evil. By nature he don't have the power or means to perform this kind of act (that would fit better to a multiverse being if done there).
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    As I said, not feature request as such. There's just not much incentive to do sidequests as an evil char. The main quest lends itself to an evil character seeking power, but sidequests offer little or nothing other than gold.

    What self-respecting self-interested character is going to help the halflings of Gullykin (given that there is no option to side with the ogre mage) or Delon in Baldur's gate? Regardless of an offer of reward, why would an evil character get involved unless they could name their price? Money alone is not a sufficient motivator.

    Getting back to the point: good characters can be motivated by helping people, neutral by money, fairness or keeping balance. But only having money as a driving force for evil characters is one-dimensional in the extreme. What motivates Edwin in BG2? The search for a specific powerful & forbidden item to grant him
    an advantage over others. Evil PCs are rarely offered such an interesting opportunity.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    I agree with you bro about evil need in baldur's gate, i believe i was the frist to call this matter in the forum (maybe i'm wrong).

    In fact the game already create an entire environment suceptible to evil quests and alternatives. In fact the nature of a son of Bhaal is to have an external evil (bhaal essence) merged with your soul that pull yourself to evil with time.

    I give a lot of alternatives in other threads, many of them using the already existent content of the game and just extending some of their patches.

    To make the game viable to evil characters we don't need even to add to much new content (but i really hope that a lot of evil new content comes to be added to the game), even in a mod we could do this. But just lemme let it clear that i see the lack of evil content as a defect, the true failure that exist in Baldur's Gate, so if a EE is being done, the frist thing to fix is this lack of evil feature.



  • DrayenDrayen Member Posts: 127
    The way i see evil characters act, is that they are self-centered and greedy, so they don't do something for nothing, but there should be an incentive to do every major quest, whether the quest ends in a neutral fashion or evil fashion. There needs to be more self-rewarding, and non-caring options. The current "i dont care about your stuff" which ends up skipping quests is obviously bad, and "Give me moar money" sounds just derp
  • Syntia13Syntia13 Member Posts: 514
    Tanthalas said:

    @Syntia13

    It wasn't Mutamin that petrified Branwen, it was Tranzig, a mage you can encounter in Beregost in Chapter 3.

    What? *thinks very hard* Oh, shoot, you're right. Whatever happened to my elephant memory? :( I guess Mutamin made a much bigger impression on me, his basilisc infested map was where I lost Imoen for the first time - very traumatizing experience for a new gamer! ;)
    kamuizin said:


    I give a lot of alternatives in other threads, many of them using the already existent content of the game and just extending some of their patches.

    Could you specify what threads exactly? I'd love to read more evil ideas.

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