[Bug] Ankheg Plate unusable by Archer
IN1
Member Posts: 168
I've already reported this. I don't think there's any room for a different interpretation here: "This plate mail has been expertly crafted by Taerom Fuiruim of Beregost. Sheathed in the chitinous scales of the ankheg, it provides a greater degree of protection than traditional plate mail and is not susceptible to rust. As any world-weary adventurer will tell you, however, the best appreciated aspect of ankheg mail is its light weight and low encumbrance. Monsters come and go but fatigue is a constant enemy." Kit description is similarly unequivocal: "May not use metal armor."
Ankheg Plate is not metal. Please remove the Archer flag in PLAT06.ITM officially
Ankheg Plate is not metal. Please remove the Archer flag in PLAT06.ITM officially
0
Comments
I understand your point; it is made from shells not metal therefore archers should be able to wear them.
But it would easily ruin the point of making a ranger instead of an archer... seeing as they could both reach the same AC.
Well, change the description then. It can be a mixed metal/chitin armor, after all. As it stands, the rules imply the Archer should be able to use it.
I understand that ankheg isn't metal but it should be obvious that an archer can't use it
I'm at loss here. Druids cannot use it BG:EE.
Archers, however, I can understand them not being able to use it. They aren't druids in the sense that 'natural' armors have any relevance at all. Other rangers prove that. They simply cannot use heavier armor. The only reason druids can't wear heavy armor is because they're made of metal, which breaks the 'code' or whatever.
I believe that's incorrect. Archers are a predominantly elven, and thus nature-themed kit. I think the unique wording 'may not wear metal armor' is there for a reason. In fact, all Rangers (with the possible exception of Stalker) are quasi-Druids of sorts.
As for archers, this seems pretty black-and-white. They can wear non-metal armor, and this is a non-metal armor.
No, it's not yet sorted as of 1.0.2011.
Maybe their kit description should say that they "can only wear armors up to studded leather" to avoid confusion. Just because it says "non metal" doesn't mean it makes any sense for them to wear any kind of heavy armor, no matter how you can spin it being "natural" and all.
They did not.
There have been numerous item descriptions that were not consistent with another in this game. Kit descriptions may just be another example of that.
The armor was made by animal parts, not metal, but by allowing Rangers and Druids to wear this you've basically decided for those classes what to wear (easy to obtain armor that is better than plate armor).
This basically allows Rangers and Druids to get the benefit of plate mail armor with none of the restrictions that were built into the classes. I agree with removing the magical flag from this armor but allowing Druids and Rangers to wear it is going to far towards 'power gaming' rather than towards the spirit of D&D.
Any premise that starts with undermining descriptions opens up a host of arbitrary changes. It's not that there aren't mistakes or silly inconsistencies in descriptions--of course there are--it's that it's unwise to disregard evidence unless you have better evidence to replace it. In this case, we don't.
I've had this fight many times over in the course of the Fixpack. Trying to outguess or balance kits/classes leads you to some very strange places. Sometimes the changes result in a better game, sometimes, worse, but rarely can you call them fixes.
Other ranger kits and druids can't use it as well, because none of them can use heavy armor.
Not everything should be taken literally. Some application of common sense every now and then can be useful as well. But I understand that you are just grasping for straws because you want to use it. What I don't understand is why you don't just mod it for yourself instead of asking for changes that don't make sense but would affect everyone.
Gosh... Listen, CamDawg had been a major driving force behind so many fixpacks/community mods to the original IE games over the years, that your accusations sound really ridiculous
As for myself, I've modded PLAT06 for Archers (still undecided regarding Druids) several days after the release, indeed. And I don't even play Archers
>In the game it says not usable by Druids.
Well, in BG and BG2 it is. It's just erroneously flagged in BG:EE. I find it difficult to believe it could have been a conscious design decision.
No, that's incorrect. Checked it out not only in NI, but also in-game.
I see people arguing PnP reasons to give players more power "Ankheg is non-metal so Druids should be able to wear it" but when I argue PnP to give players less power, my arguments are thrown aside.
I was referring to BG1, where it doesn't say a word about being unusable by Druids (checked it out a minute ago). BG:EE is BG1.
Somewhere along the way from BG/BG2 to BGEE, someone added the flag to make it unusable by druids. It's possible it was a design choice by the BGEE devs, but I don't recall it coming up during the beta and the devs--especially right now!-- have better things to do than pop their nose into a rules argument.
I understand your argument and doomdoomdoom's, and certainly see its merits. Keep in mind that I'm usually approaching things from a BG2 Fixpack perspective--I think druid and archer usability here is pretty clear cut. That's not to say that changing these wouldn't yield a better or more sensible game, it's just that I don't think such changes qualify as a bug fix. Please, don't. The arguments I advance should stand on their own, or not. I've never been a fan of argument from authority, even when it's to my advantage.
"The archer is the epitome of skill with the bow. He is the ultimate marksman, able to make almost any shot, not matter how difficult. To become so skilled with the bow, the archer has had to sacrifice some of his proficiency with melee weapons and armor."
The archer is described as having limited proficiency in wearing armour because of his/her focus on the bow. There is a skill to wearing each type of armour (as armours vary in weight distribution, range of movement, etc) and there are certain kinds of armour that the archer has simply never had the time to learn to use.
It makes no sense for an archer who has never learnt how to use, for example, standard (i.e. metal) plate mail armour to be fully capable of using the same style of armour that happens to made of an exotic non-metal material. S/he lacks the skill to do so.
I would suggest that it makes more sense to read "cannot wear any metal armor", as "cannot wear any armor that is ordinarily fashioned in metal (i.e. armor heavier than studded leather)".
Or he could change it so that it satisfies the wording of the kit description (since that's the only evidence available), and you can just not use it on an archer if you're against doing so. You see how that argument can go both ways?
This is distinct from the druid's inability to wear armor that is made out of metal, which stems from the druid's unwillingness to don garments made from inorganic material (which is something, incidentally, that I find kind of strange for a class that has no problem wearing the dead skin of, say, the deer that it spends its days trying to protect); a druid can wear hide armor, which is sturdier and more restrictive than studded leather, as well as any armor made from dragon scales or ankheg plates.
The Archer's disadvantage is based on a lack of skill; the druid's is based on a lack of will. So an archer can't wear plate armor, even if it's made from an organic substitute such as ankheg plates or dragon scales.
That said, the wording of the kit might need to be adjusted. More likely, however, the druid's wording should be shifted to read "Ethically prohibited from wearing any armor made from metal," since that's the intent.
Even if it is lighter in pouds, as I can remember in my old AD&D's books, the character didn't learnt how to wear it.
Jaheira can wear it because she's a Fighter/Druid.
But your are right, maybe the description of the kit should be corrected.
Ankheg plate isn't actually plate. field plate, or full plate mail, it is actually splint mail that functions as. Courtesy of second edition monsters' manual.
Ankheg are Giant bugs, bug shells are made of 'chitin'. chitin is not metal, or heavy, or cumbersome.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitin