Skip to content

Standard Array for Attributes?

PeteAtomsPeteAtoms Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 140
I don't know much about D&D, but isn't there one or two different standard set of scores a player can use for abilities rather than rolling dice?

Do the same standard arrays viable in Baldur's Gate? I recall reading somewhere that 3.x edition abilities actually increase every so often as part of gaining levels. Would this make the standard arrays gimp'd in 2e/BG?

If they can't be used in BG as a viable option (without being underpowered), is there any standard equivalent array I can use instead?

I just don't like random rolls, to be honest. I like the idea of point buy and/or arrays more. Any advice?

Comments

  • The_CheesemanThe_Cheeseman Member Posts: 175
    Standard arrays for ability scores didn't exist in AD&D 2nd Ed., and really wouldn't work, since the ability scores function very differently in later additions. Average scores, between 9-13 or so, generally provide no benefits, and some abilities really don't do anything useful for many classes (Int, Wis, and Cha are all pretty much useless for a fighter), so point-buy systems really wouldn't work well. If you don't like rolling, just use the Ctrl+8 cheat to set your abilities to maximum, and then lower them to your preferred taste.
  • LordRumfishLordRumfish Member Posts: 937
    Aha! 2nd edition D&D didn't have increasing attributes by level, and rolling was the standard system. Games have changed a lot, @PeteAtoms , and you are correct that more modern RPG systems have standard arrays and increasing values. I personally have bad luck with stat rolls and always prefer point buy. It's difficult to adjudicate one for 2nd edition because most stats didn't start having bonuses until 15+ in the score.

    I *can* tell you what the standard stat rolling methods were for 2nd edition, because I have a PHB handy here. Directly quoted from the source:

    ---

    METHOD I: Roll 3 six-sided dice (3d6); the total shown on the dice is your character's Strength ability score. Repeat this for Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma, in that order. This method gives a range of scores from 3 to 18, with most results in the 9 to 12 range. Only a few characters have high scores (15 and above), so you should treasure these characters.

    Alternative Dice-Rolling Methods

    Method I creates characters whose ability scores are usually between 9 and 12. If you would rather play a character of truly heroic proportions, ask your DM if he allows players to use optional methods for rolling up characters. These optional methods are designed to produce above-average characters.

    METHOD II: Roll 3d6 twice, noting the total of each roll. Use whichever result you prefer for your character's Strength score. Repeat this for Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. This allows you to pick the best score from each pair, generally ensuring that your character does not have any really low ability scores (but low ability scores are not all that bad anyway!).

    METHOD III: Roll 3d6 six times and jot down the total for each roll. Assign the scores to your character's six abilities however you want. This gives you the chance to custom-tailor your character, although you are not guaranteed high scores.

    METHOD IV: Roll 3d6 twelve times and jot down all twelve totals. Choose six of these rolls (generally the six best rolls) and assign them to your character's abilities however you want. This combines the best of methods II and III, but takes somewhat longer.

    METHOD V: Roll four six-sided dice (4d6). Discard the lowest die and total the remaining three. Repeat this five more times, then assign the six numbers to the character's abilities however you want. This is a fast method that gives you a good character, but you can still get low scores (after all, you could roll 1s on all four dice!).

    METHOD VI: This method can be used if you want to create a specific type of character. It does not guarantee that you will get the character you want, but it will improve your chances.
    Each ability starts with a score of 8. Then roll seven dice. These dice can be added to your character's abilities as you wish. All the points on a die must be added to the same ability score. For example, if a 6 is rolled on one die, all 6 points must be assigned to one ability. You can add as many dice as you want to any ability, but no ability score can exceed 18 points. If you cannot make an 18 by exact count on the dice, you cannot have an 18 score.

    ---

    Anyhow, sounds to me that if you want to approximate 2nd edition point buy, the best method listed in 2nd edition is method VI. That way you have good odds of having a couple of high scores. If you're feeling lucky, I might try method IV instead. I usually don't feel lucky.
  • MERLANCEMERLANCE Member Posts: 421
    If you rolled all 6's in method VI, you would have all 14s. no bonuses to pretty much everything but still the "best" result.
  • LordRumfishLordRumfish Member Posts: 937
    Oh, you could certainly get screwed over by the dice, no doubt. You really want some 4s to go with the 6s or pairs of 5s.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,420
    Well BG will give you no choice on method, it simply randomly generates 3d6 for each of the six attributes. This seems to be one of the great divides among players, I personally can't stand point buy systems. What I love about the random results is exactly that, its random. You can end up with any odd combination of results, like a high strength and intelligence but lousy dexterity (hmmm; fighter/Mage? A really smart sword slinger? A really strong wizard? Random results can lead to very interesting and unique characters. You do have to plan carefully sometimes to make the most of the attributes you end up with.; that is absolutely one of my favorite things about the 2E rules.

    Now BG isn't really that random. It's more about just generating a point total, and point shifting them around to get results you can live with. You may spend a while rolling results, but you will eventually get something very useful.
    If that still doesn't appeal to you, there are the three pre-generated characters. I think they're actually kind of weak characters, but again, making something of them is half the game. That's the fun part!
  • PeteAtomsPeteAtoms Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 140
    Ah, so I guess I was right. Thanks anyways :)
  • The_CheesemanThe_Cheeseman Member Posts: 175
    I enjoy playing characters with oddball ability scores... in PnP. But making a mechanically weak character is not as fun without a live DM who can tailor his campaign to your party's capabilities. Especially since PC games rarely provide any worthwhile entertainment options specifically for low-attribute characters. When I am playing by myself, against a series of computer-controlled, pre-generated challenges, I see no reason to intentionally gimp myself.
  • PeteAtomsPeteAtoms Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 140

    I enjoy playing characters with oddball ability scores... in PnP. But making a mechanically weak character is not as fun without a live DM who can tailor his campaign to your party's capabilities. Especially since PC games rarely provide any worthwhile entertainment options specifically for low-attribute characters. When I am playing by myself, against a series of computer-controlled, pre-generated challenges, I see no reason to intentionally gimp myself.


    I agree, but sometimes I enjoy the challenge of a gimp'd character. But my original question was actually about a balanced array of ability scores (not under or overpowered). I'm also starting to wonder if that kind of thing is highly dependent on the character's class.
  • LordRumfishLordRumfish Member Posts: 937
    Might sound weird, but you could choose one of the stat arrays from 4th edition and run with it. I know, the stats in that game are completely different, but here's a couple of examples.

    18, 14, 11, 10, 10, 8 (my favorite if you want a specialized character in 4th)
    18, 12, 12, 10, 10, 10
    17, 15, 12, 11, 10, 8
    16, 16, 12, 10, 10, 10
    16, 14, 14, 12, 11, 8 (my favorite if you want a barded-out character in 4th)
    15, 15, 13, 12, 11, 10
    14, 14, 14, 14, 12, 8

    Now, this is 2nd edition and you won't get as much mileage probably from these stats as you would in 3rd or 4th edition. If you want to try one of these, I'd pick one of the first 4 sets to get the most stat bonus out of the high stats. It may not even work for a paladin though. I could try to guesstimate you some numbers for 2nd edition since I've been a DM for many years, but it would be a guess. I advise you to take the system in the spirit it is presented in, and roll it with actual dice, then modify your scores in-game to match.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,420
    PeteAtoms said:

    but sometimes I enjoy the challenge of a gimp'd character. But my original question was actually about a balanced array of ability scores (not under or overpowered). I'm also starting to wonder if that kind of thing is highly dependent on the character's class.

    I think the contrast between strong and weak characters is one of my favorite things. It can be fun to play a weak character that is always using all their resources, burning through scrolls and potions at an alarming rate, and constantly get beat senseless in every fight.
    Then play a strong character who just dominates every fight.

    I really enjoy and appreciate the extremes.

    I wouldn't worry about any scores being too unbalanced though. Unless you use Shadow Keeper you're unlikely to end up with anything that will really undermine the game balance too much.
Sign In or Register to comment.