3 player multiplayer party setup - help needed
Avari
Member Posts: 38
When exams are over at the end of January I'm gonna delve into BG:EE in a 3 man multiplayer session over a couple of days with two friends of mine. (LAN like in the good old days with half a day spent on just getting a network game running if they don't manage to patch it first!).
We've looked into what classes to include to have a well rounded party, that ideally does not have to pick up NPCs along the way unless it's for a quest or some such. We've been perusing different forums about what multi/dual classes to bring and what classes we should have available. We will be playing without the level cap restriction (lvl 40 mod), and may want to bring the characters into BG2:EE (undecided so far). Our thoughts on what to roll so far is:
-Human fighter that will dual to thief at level 9
-Dwarf multi class fighter/cleric
-Sorcerer (race undecided)
We are aware that we will miss a thief until we can get our dual class guy into it, and might end up bringing Imoen along for that purpose. There are a few things we are uncertain of although we've been through a lot of the knowledge forums on the topic of dual/multiclass.
So our questions are the following (for now atleast):
-Is it even a viable setup? Are there some option we might experience as more well rounded?
-Is there any advantage to a dual classed fighter (lvl9)/thief compared to a multiclass fighter/thief when we remove the xp cap? (We are aware multiclasses level slower with split in xp)
-Are there better options than the sorcerer? The guy that is going to play mage has a thing for wild mages, but we are a bit concerned that it will be...hmm... unreliable in the beginning of the game.
-I heard mention of a blackguard with longbow being a great option for BG1 due to the poison attacks, but is it viable for bringing into BG2?
-We plan to play on either core rules or +50% - will we experience the latter as "too difficult" with the setup we've chosen so far?
Any constructive comments and thoughts are appreciated. We're not experts in the AD&D rules, so we thought we'd ask around a bit before deciding on our best options.
Thank you
/Av'
We've looked into what classes to include to have a well rounded party, that ideally does not have to pick up NPCs along the way unless it's for a quest or some such. We've been perusing different forums about what multi/dual classes to bring and what classes we should have available. We will be playing without the level cap restriction (lvl 40 mod), and may want to bring the characters into BG2:EE (undecided so far). Our thoughts on what to roll so far is:
-Human fighter that will dual to thief at level 9
-Dwarf multi class fighter/cleric
-Sorcerer (race undecided)
We are aware that we will miss a thief until we can get our dual class guy into it, and might end up bringing Imoen along for that purpose. There are a few things we are uncertain of although we've been through a lot of the knowledge forums on the topic of dual/multiclass.
So our questions are the following (for now atleast):
-Is it even a viable setup? Are there some option we might experience as more well rounded?
-Is there any advantage to a dual classed fighter (lvl9)/thief compared to a multiclass fighter/thief when we remove the xp cap? (We are aware multiclasses level slower with split in xp)
-Are there better options than the sorcerer? The guy that is going to play mage has a thing for wild mages, but we are a bit concerned that it will be...hmm... unreliable in the beginning of the game.
-I heard mention of a blackguard with longbow being a great option for BG1 due to the poison attacks, but is it viable for bringing into BG2?
-We plan to play on either core rules or +50% - will we experience the latter as "too difficult" with the setup we've chosen so far?
Any constructive comments and thoughts are appreciated. We're not experts in the AD&D rules, so we thought we'd ask around a bit before deciding on our best options.
Thank you
/Av'
0
Comments
As far as dual vis-à-vis multi for the fighter thief, I'm of the mind that if you're going to dual class from fighter, you should wait until level 13 when you gain the final 1/2 attack from being a fighter. However, kensai -> thief is very powerful in that kai makes for awesome backstabs, not to mention the hit, damage and eventually with UAI, the AC bonus(even once you equip an armour, the kensai retains his 2 AC bonus). It's just a shame to dual it at 9 instead of 13(it's still really powerful though, multi only really outperforms it once high level abilities come into play).
Edit: Considering you aren't sure whether or not you will continue after BG1, I'd just go with the multiclass or dual at 9 rather than dualing at 13. Multi would probably make your life a lot easier early on though(unless you bring imoen).
Edit2: As for core rules or +50%, I don't see why you would have any problems at all. With three player made characters, you will probably all have optimal stats(no chars with less than 18 dex for AC, maxed hit points, et.c.) so I don't see why you would have any problems with the difficulty. As long as you don't get hit in the first place(low AC is stupid good in this game compared to BG2 where everything always manages to hit you anyway) why would taking +50% make any difference? :P
Edit3: As someone who has completed all of BG2+ToB in a 6 player multiplayer game during a LAN weekend where one player was a wild mage, DO NOT PLAY WILD MAGE. It's going to be awesome fun for about ~4 hours, but the loading whenever your gold disappears and what have you is going to drive people fucking nuts. Do *NOT* do it. Sorcerer is probably the most powerful arcane caster in the game anyway(other than chain contingency triple imp. chaos shield cheese) so just stick with that.
- Human Berserker, dual to Cleric. Basically you will have a cleric with good Thac0, weapon specialization, and Enrage (awesome for those fights were enemies love to use crowd control).
- Human Kensai, dual to Mage. Imho, much better than the sorc.
- Human Wizard Slayer, dual to Thief. Yeah, this will be a hard one because of all those magic items he cant use. But if you plan on getting all the way to ToB, once you get UAI you will be able to equip any gear you want, even Carsomyr.
You can bash most chests early on in the game with 18/high strength, so that's not really an issue but come on, that's just going to be frustrating to play. Can you say "whiff"? The sorcerer instead of a kensai -> mage would add tons of utility early on through spamming sleep and no party needs three front line fighters(which is the entire point of kensai -> mage, to trade some not-so-insignificant spellcasting ability for the ability to fight). I approve of the berserker -> cleric dual instead of multi though, you don't really need low level priest spells in BG1. Having the main character be good means you get two cure light wounds early on and between that and potions healing should be covered as long as you have an arcane caster to sleep every thing(won't be taking much damage).
Also, the berserker can dual to a cleric pretty quick. So you would play most of the game with a melee class (Kensai), archer (Wizard Slayer) and Berserker/Cleric. In fact, you can dual the WS pretty soon too since what you really want from the kit is the spellcasting failure he applies on his targets.
Finally, there are no silly suggestions in Baldur's Gate. You have people soloing the game ffs, so why should a Berserker/Kensai/WS party be silly?
I'm not sold on wizard slayer though, are you even allowed to use any magic items other than armour/weapons after you dual? I thought that was only once you get UAI?
Edit: Also, I definitely don't agree on kensai/mage being better than sorcerer. Different, maybe, but definitely not purely better by any stretch of the definition. Unless you exclude all cheese, sorcerers are absolutely nuts. It's the only caster that can somewhat rely on wish resting(due to not being forced to either sacrifice all its level 9 slots for wish or to rely on lucking out with a single wish memorization) other than the aforementioned wild mage cheese.
Kensai/mage is not nearly as "godlike" in the spellcasting department as a sorcerer. Sure, a sorcerer can't fight his way out of a paper bag but the spellcasting comparison isn't even close.
Yes, the WS could only use magic items with the HLA UAI. I know not many people like this dual class, but i loved it when i played mine.
The Kensai/Mage is better than a sorc if you also like to melee. They have two very different playstyles: Sorcs stand in the back pew-pewing everything, while Kensai/Mages buff themselves with protective magic and go melee. Also, Mages are much more flexible than Sorcs and have more spells.
In the end, i suggest the OP asks their friends how they want to play their characters and then decide what class is better suited for them.
That setup will certainly viable.
Personally I'd go with a multi-class fighter/thief over a dual-class. It'll be more fun in the short term because you get to sneak, steal and backstab right from the start, and it'll be better in the long run for the higher THAC0 and the ability to choose Fighter andThief HLA's.
Sorcerers are great in videogames. You have to think about your spellbook only once instead of rearranging it on every rest. Wild mages offer even more flexibility. Perhaps too much: your buddy will have to think quick if he casts nothing but Nahal's, unless you pause every time. Wild mages are less reliable than a sorcerer though, and wild surges WILL cause a reload every now and then. Decide among yourselves if you can live with that.
A dwarf fighter/cleric can be a great tank and handle the +50%. The fighter/thief will be more squishy; you might have to take care to flank only what the fighter/cleric is tanking. The sorcerer shouldn't be in melee anyway, so the +50% is no more of a problem for him than the normal game is.
Thanks for all the feedback so far - it's really great! I'll be looking through it in detail and confer with my brothers-in-arms
Will probably return with some follow-up questions!
I suggest multis over duals just because the pain of re-levelling in a small party. It goes quickly, but unless you xp camp, you can get in some pretty hairy situations.
As for the thief, I say gnome for the shorty saves, or elf for the +1 thac0 to bow/swords + 19 dex, and neither compromises str or dex (unlike dwarves or halflings). If the str book is earmarked for the f/c, Half-orc wouldn't be a bad choice here. Dwarf isn't terrible, as they get racial bonuses in the most important thieving skills, but a point less of dex isn't ideal.
The extra point of dex will help your sorc remain useful even sans spell casting.
EDIT:
I thought I should elaborate on a point, since you said you were unfamiliar with some of the rules. "Shorty" saves refers to a saving throw bonus the shorty races get (dwarves, gnomes and halflings) based on their CON. I believe it caps at at +5 to all throws at 18 CON.
How do people manage traps in Nashkel for example, when they solo as a sorcerer?
I'm really not itching to play sorc. I like flexibility, always did. Quantity of spells, over quality, sort of mentality.
I get that Sorc's are super powerful, but I always felt limited in what I could do, while playing one.
Sure, if you pick all the right spells, you're a steamroller, but if I have to sit down with a lvl progression chart, picking only the "optimal" spells for fear of gimping our party, then I may as well let a bot controll my char. It's not like I'm picking spells anyway, I'm just taking what's "best".
It's boring =(
Unfortunately, seeing as I went Wild Mage last time and, as someone stated, made all our gold disappear, I'm sort of forced to be a little more responsible this time, thus picking what actually works, not what's most fun for me (thus probably most dangerous for everyone else).
So... Help a fellow out.
Someone help me set up some sort of kick-ass mage build, so I can slap it in Avari's face and not have to play a Sorc...
(Especially cus I hate playing Elves -_-)
Cheers!
Edit: You could also Dual-class of course, but I get the impression that you'd like to be casting spells from day one, and your group might not like not having any mage spellcasting for a good chunk of the early game. That said, Kensai->Mage is popular for a reason, and Swashbuckler->Mage could be a good way to grab Open Locks and Find Traps early, meaning you won't miss those in the early game and the Fighter->Thief can prioritize Hide/Move Silently for backstabs.
Edit2: Also, it seems no one addressed the Blackguard question. Yes, Long Bow + Poison Weapon is about as awesome as you'd expect. I'm of the opinion that Long Bows are viable in BG2 thanks to Heartseeker, but it's true that it doesn't quite measure up to Gesen. You can take Short Bows in BG1, use the Eagle Bow, and be slightly weaker at range in BG1, or you can take Long Bows and be slightly weaker at range in BG2. In my opinion, just go with the Long Bows, as I doubt you'll be resorting to ranged combat much by the time you're midway into BG2.
What sort of multi-classing would even be viable?
I'm used to munchkinning the ever loving f**k out of Never Winter and the likes, but I haven't tried to break BG yet, so I'm not really into the old 2nd ed rules.
I'd read up, but we're playing this weekend, so I'm turning to you lot for help ^^
How is multiclassing better than pure mage?
Would think more spells was a good thing... Or are there no DC's in BG?
I can't remember if int affects saving throws and such, or whether that's later editions?
I don't want to build my little munchkin on the wrong premesis ^^
Multiclassing is nice for adding some additional capabilities to your Mage, but if you want lots of spells and more powerful spells faster, I'd say stick to a single-classed Mage or maybe a brief Dual-class. Swashbuckler 5->Mage would give you a nice little AC bump, access to better weapons than a Single-Classed mage, and probably enough skill points to get Find Traps and Open Locks up to a reasonable point (depending on your Dex).
Gnome Thief/Illusionist - staves, crossbows, eventually long swords
Half Elf Cleric/Ranger - maces, slings
Elf Stalker - scimitars, longbows, eventually 2H
It's going pretty well though I've just started. It's got everything covered pretty much and they can all throw down.
F/C (dwarf obv.)
- mindlessly tanks (and does other boring cleric tasks)
F/M (not a gnome)
- kills stuff (2h GWW + competent casting; neat saves and arcane protections)
F/T/M (elf)
- kills moar stuff (staff backstab; utility skills and lesser magic)
or just T/M because it levels faster but lacking those fighter levels definitely makes it less potent
you don't need uber arcane casting (sorc.), it's overkill; two moderately powerful mages will do the trick
also, there's no tedious dual-classing here.
however, this party would just be 'pretty ok' for bg1 (endgame) and far from ideal but perfectly manageable in bg2
sry for necroing