(A) Psionic class(es)/ Kit(s)

garyriley1982

Ok, im a fan of the Dark sun games too, but i don't see why Psionics cant be added in kit or class form (before anyone moans, I've been playing the Baldur's Gate games since each of them came out on and off through the years). I ask for this as they ARE in 2nd Ed rules, but they weren't given ANY lovin in any of the Infinity engine games - even the neverwinter nights games either - id just love to see my Favorite classes from PnP 2nd Ed to be available even if its just one class out of the source-book.

these days I use PnP Pathfinder to enjoy them, but as i said, i'd love to see them brought back in CRPG form :-)

Grammarsalad

I'd love to see them too. I don't remember them in 2ed but the 3.5 version was amazing.

Aliteri

From my understanding, the Forgotten Realms likes to tie in rule additions and changes with the story right? Would adding psionics cause any contradiction? If so, that might be a little arguable, if not impossible for the devs to approve with the WotC side of things.

kamuizin

The assignment just means no change on the original contend if i'm not wrong, i believe add psonics would have no impact on the covenant between the companies. The biggest problem would be configurate a psonic skills to not have to just use the mage/priest settings for the kit, what would mean change a little more the engine (unseless this is already being done, it's possible).

Flauschig

Never read about Psionics. What's this kit like?

kamuizin

Dark sun campaing world don't have or have few magic (i really don't know much about Dark Sun). There ppl use the mind to archieve what is done by magic in other worlds, it's somehow based in Duna novels and Star Wars too.

Psionics is the ability that cover magic there (i think).

Tanthalas

The only novels that I read with Psionics in the FR were the Salvatore novels. Psionics looked pretty much like normal magic in those.

garyriley1982

A Simple, very basic breakdown...

1)The psionicist is a character class

2) The list of psionic powers is over 150

3) Psionic powers are organized differently - All psionic powers are grouped into six disciplines:

clairsentience (expanded senses)
psychokinesis (moving matter through space)
psychometabolism (altering the body)
psychoportation (psionic travel)
telepathy (mind-to-mind contact)
and metapsionics (an advanced discipline)

Within each discipline are major powers, called “ sciences,” and minor powers, called “ devotions.” Characters can only learn powers from the disciplines they have access to. At 1st level, a character has access to only one discipline, but with experience he gains access to more.

4) Psionic powers are treated much like proficiencies Psionic powers don not work automatically. A power is essentially a skill, and using it properly requires a power check.

5) Psionic strength points are not divided into attack, defense, and generic batches. All of a character's psionic strength points come from a single pool.

-----------------------------

An excerpt from the book on the Relation between Magic, both Arcane and Divine, and Psionics (in 2nd Ed) puts it thusly: _

" Is Psionics Magical?

Many people assume that psionics is just another type of magic. The AD&D game
already has two types of magic - one wielded by wizards and the other by clerics.
So it is not unreasonable to ask, "Does the game need a third type of magic?"
The answer is no, the game probably does not need a third kind of magic.
But the question is misinformed because psionics is not magic. Magic is the
ability to shape, control, harness, and utilize natural forces that infuse the
game world and surround the characters. It is based on the principle that,
through the use of words, gestures, and catalyzing materials of unique power,
these external energies can be controlled. The key element of that statement is
external energy.

Magical effects are produced externally by manipulating outside forces.
The power does not come from inside the wizard or priest but from somewhere else.
Psionics is the complete opposite of this. The psionicist shapes, controls,
harnesses, and utilizes natural forces that infuse his own being. His effort is
focused inward rather than outward. He must be completely in touch with and
aware of even the tiniest workings of his body and mind.

This type of knowledge comes from long and intense meditation coupled with
physical extremes. The psionicist finds enlightenment in both complete
exhaustion and complete relaxation, in both pain and pleasure. The mind and body
are only parts of a much greater unity. Indeed, discussing one without the
other, as so many people do, seems nonsensical to a psionicist; they cannot be
separated. The body produces energy and vitality, the mind gives it shape and
reality.

Neither does the psionicist study or pray for his powers. He carries them
with him wherever he goes. As long as his mind and body are rested - i.e., as
long as he has not depleted his psionic strength - his powers are available to
him."

Anton

I vote for a paid DLC with psionics

Kore

PhillipDaigle ‏18th April:
"Hey #bgee, what kit/class do you most wish was in BG1 and 2? (DON'T SAY PSIONICIST OR I WILL LITERALLY COME TO YOUR HOME AND MURDER YOU)"


Justsayin'

garyriley1982

If it will get it into the game, im happy to take one for the team... lol

Grammarsalad

@PhillipDaigle I'd like a psionic warrior fighter kit and a psion class please! :P

Grammarsalad

...and a soulknife theif kit.

Lunever

Once upon a time there was a mod that added psionics with a dialogue-based menu. While the psionics themselves worked fine, the menu was awkard to operate.

Conphantus

PhillipDaigle ‏18th April:
"Hey #bgee, what kit/class do you most wish was in BG1 and 2? (DON'T SAY PSIONICIST OR I WILL LITERALLY COME TO YOUR HOME AND MURDER YOU)"


Justsayin'

I second any request of adding the psionic class and/or psionic kits as paid DLC. The horrors of Phillip Daigle may instill fear in us all, but the cause is worth fighting for!

Cadros

@PhillipDaigle is clearly a mindflayer and fears a new gith uprising

PhillipDaigle

According to the Forgotten Realms wiki which I may or may not have just edited:

"Before the Time of Troubles, psionics was more common in the realms. Briefly afterward, there was no psionics in the Realms, save for those that used a spelljammer to take them to Realmspace."

So clearly it's just totally impossible to do psionics.

Medillen

Aren't monks considered psionics in some edition ?

[edit] according to forgotten wiki they are ^^ http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Monk

garyriley1982

@PhillipDaigle, whats with all the hate against Psionics? there must be a personal reason... I know of a few PnP DM's who had a personal grudge against them - but i've played them in almost all of the PnP adventures (in pure or hybrid form) perfectly fine, as have others in games I've DM'ed.

If its genuinely the setting itself, would you guys ever consider remaking the 'Dark Sun' games within an Infinity Engine system? there are enough of us that would buy such a remake I think.

PhillipDaigle

It's mainly the issue that psionics are so close to magic users that you wouldn't really get a lot of bang for your buck if we introduced them into BG. Many of the psionic abilities simply can't be represented that easily inside of BG, and they wouldn't really have drastically different gameplay from existing classes.

I'm not against adding psionics ever, for example if we did a future D&D game I'm sure we could look at their inclusion since we'd be building new systems anyway. But in existing BG1/2, from a design standpoint they appear to be more work than benefit. We'd rather spend our time adding things like new quests and bug fixes instead of psionics.

PhillipDaigle

Regarding a Dark Sun game, I like Dark Sun. I think it's cool. But I have a feeling the audience for Dark Sun is too small for a new game. But one can always hope.

Grammarsalad

Fair enough...

What about Eberron?

Kalindor

Regarding a Dark Sun game, I like Dark Sun. I think it's cool. But I have a feeling the audience for Dark Sun is too small for a new game. But one can always hope.

honestly if the game is fun and has a deep tactical system I would play it regardless of the setting.

Galactygon

I'm not against adding psionics ever, for example if we did a future D&D game I'm sure we could look at their inclusion since we'd be building new systems anyway. But in existing BG1/2, from a design standpoint they appear to be more work than benefit. We'd rather spend our time adding things like new quests and bug fixes instead of psionics.

You could always open up the possibility to modders to somehow "softcode" the way spells/abilities are expended (ie. traditional one-for-one, sorcerer-style, or points system). A better alternative might be to allow modders to link spell casting conditions to external script blocks so that the points system can be mimicked via LOCALs as well as open up the possibility for material components for spells/abilities.

-Galactygon

AndreaColombo

You could always open up the possibility to modders to somehow "softcode" the way spells/abilities are expended (ie. traditional one-for-one, sorcerer-style, or points system). A better alternative might be to allow modders to link spell casting conditions to external script blocks so that the points system can be mimicked via LOCALs as well as open up the possibility for material components for spells/abilities.

Added to the Master Thread of Externalization Requests.

Jaxx86

The thing with Psionicists, is that they are just so damn powerful. They would have to level up at a much slower rate and have a lower lvl cap to balance them in the game. I'm thinking of Kimmuriel from the Drizzt books, he effortlessly kills and gets what he wants. A True Psionicist wouldn't have the same story arc as the rest of the classes. The Shadow Thieves would have never have captured a Psionicist and Irenicus, as powerful as he is, could never contend with a Psionicist. I think things would go way differently playing a Psionicist, so differently, that the story would feel broken at many points with that class in the game. Telepathic powers would make many of the dialogue options feel silly. Awesome class, awesome idea, it's just extremely difficult to implement.

BKatt

Id be up for a payed DLC, would love to support the game and crew.

garyriley1982

@PhillipDaigle, Well that all makes sense, i guess im just disappointed by the lack of love for them in general in CRPG's. If you could consider something for the future that would be great, and i think - even if not a remake of the Dark Sun 1 and 2, a game set in that setting (or Eberron), as long as it was well written and made would be popular to those of us who have rallied behind bringing back these kind of games.

another 'out there' question - what about a Spelljammer based game? or even a regional - modular series akin to the 'Fabled lands' series of books which would patchwork Faerun (and possibly other planes/worlds) into a real 'become an adventurer style game (with the other 'lands' being future expansion DLC) where you arn't the all important savior or villain, where you pick and take jobs as they come, and build your own legend as you travel around - though granted this question is another thread i guess :-P, but would very much like to hear your opinion.