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Lets help another isometric RPG game developer (kickstarter for Legends of Dawn topic)!!!

TorinTorin Member Posts: 229
edited December 2012 in Off-Topic
Hi people,

a indie team wants to finish their cool isometric old school RPG and they need our help. Game is almost finished, they ran out of money when they needed to put in Voice Overs. This is a game that focuses on exploration, questing and has huge number of crafting and spell creation options. It is for hardcore gamers (don't expect Mass Effect bullshit gameplay), AI actually has some AI and different monsters act differently, there are no loading screens and map is big. Like BG1 you can explore as you like and you don't need to follow quests exactly to finish major quests.

Go here to support them: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/522716131/legends-of-dawn

There is a gameplay trailer on the link as well.

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Comments

  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229
    edited December 2012
    Update 1 is out. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/522716131/legends-of-dawn/posts/373101

    I must say I am a bit disappointed by lack of interest or responses from people here. This game is made for people that enjoyed games there were made 1st for playing and then for eyecandy.

    Post edited by Torin on
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,681
    Thanks for pointing this out. :) I tend to miss RPG kickstarters before they finish.

    I'm not really interested in single character RPGs. If you're a fan of Diablo it may be worth looking into. I think they'll reach their goal too. :3

  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229
    Well game is 2 months from being published (if KS is successful). And it is not really a Diablo like game. It is like other single character RPGs, only thing it has from Diablo is real time combat and one click-one attack. Everything else is more like Morrowind (freedom of exploration and no monster level scaling) or Neverwinter Nights (isometric 3d engine, short cooldown based combat).

  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229
    edited December 2012
    Update 2 is out. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/522716131/legends-of-dawn/posts/374732]http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/522716131/legends-of-dawn/posts/374732

    No DRM. No level scaling for creatures. Multiple AI behaviors based on moral of creature and time of day. More content for people that like to play on harder difficulties. Sounds awesome to me.
    I am sure going to try my 1st game on Hard.

  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 525
    edited December 2012
    tilly said:


    I'm not really interested in single character RPGs. If you're a fan of Diablo...


    Sorry to go off topic here, but...

    Diablo is not an RPG. Sorry it isnt. It is a hack'n'slash action adventure with RPG elements. It is NOT an RPG. Horrible horrible example of a single character "rpg" cos it isn't an RPG.
    By this example let's say Warcraft 3 is an RPG, and GalCiv is an RPG. Hell let's say EVERYTHING is an RPG.

  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,681
    @fitscotgaymer

    aw sweety :) I never actually said Diablo was an RPG. I should have separated the two lines into two paragraphs, but I got lazy. I'll be more careful in the future for you, kay? :3

    To be clear, Diablo is an action game with an overhead view and a basic system of character leveling -- with a bit of skill choice in Diablo 2. In the past, this was classified as an action-RPG. I'm not sure if that term is still in use today.

    RPG really is one of the dumbest terms created, though. (Is there similar confusion over what is a FPS or a platformer... no!) If I split hairs, very little is an RPG. I consider games like Dungeon Master and Daggerfall/Morrowind to be action-RPGs at best and action games 'at worst'. To me, they're basically like Diablo with first person perspectives. If it's real time and you can't slow things down, it's immediately less of an RPG in my mind. In other words, if a person with shakey hands like me can't handle things, it's at least partly an 'action' game. ;)

  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 525
    I don't agree.

    I agree that there is confusion over what RPG means, but I don't think it is because it is a stupid or inaccurate term. Rather I think it is because people think Mechanics are what make an RPG.

    It is a logical assumption because game genre's usually are divided up according to the mechanics that characterise it.

    First Person Shooter, or Platformer as you said, are self explanatory.

    Role Playing Game is more based on things that are slightly more esoteric and insubstantial. Levelling, loot collecting, skill trees, and all these other things that "Make up" an RPG do not necessarily make a game an RPG.
    Like the aforementioned Diablo - it is not an RPG but it has a number of the mechanical trappings of one.

    The misunderstanding comes because people are used to looking at a games mechanics and saying "this is what an FPS is, or this is what an adventure game looks like" and when it comes to RPGs things are not that simple.

    RPGs are at core about 3 central things, IMO.

    1- Deep Immersive Story.
    2- Player Agency.
    3- Choices with Consequences.

    And none of those things are really gameplay mechanics. Which confuses people because they expect to characterise a game by its mechanics. But you can get an RPG that has no levelling, or no skill trees, or no inventory management at all, or any of the gameplay things typically associated with an RPG; but still be an RPG.

    It's why we have this situation where people are mis labelling games. But it isn't because the term is dumb. It's because other genres of video games were named by the video games industry for the video games industry.
    RPGs however come from something else that is much older, and much more involving than what video games typically are. So when they translated into video games they were given trappings to make them fun as video games while keeping the spirit of what they were (and also the name).

    I didn't mean to snap at you. I just find it irritating because I have seen lots of games recently called RPGs and they completely are not; and it annoys me lol. Sorry.
    You only have to look at the Android and Apple app stores to see what I mean.

    TiaxRulesAllRhyme
  • PinkRosePinkRose Member Posts: 102
    I think Diablo is an RPG.
    Prove me wrong.

  • ZanianZanian Member Posts: 329
    I concur. I too, see Diablo as an RPG. There are games that are more RPG-esque, but that doesn't really change anything. It has everything an RPG should have in order to be called an RPG.

    And @fitscotgaymer, those 3 central things of yours;
    1. depends on opinion, not fact, so is therefore pretty much irrelevant here.
    2. depends just as much on the player as on the game, and
    3. If only games that had Choices with Consequences were RPGs, we would only have a handful of them. VERY few games, RPGs included of course, have really done much in the consequences department, the repercussions of "good/evil" gameplays for instance.

    Criteria that states whether X is Y or not, has to be factual. Otherwise it isn't; "That's not an RPG", but instead "That is not what I would call an RPG."

    ~My 2 gold-coins.

  • HowieHowie Member Posts: 136
    RPG is a psychiatry theropy.

  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 525
    edited December 2012
    Diablo 3 isn't an RPG guys. Sorry it really isn't. Even Blizzard doesn't call it an RPG.

    It is erroneously called an RPG by others.

    I agree that the definition of RPG Is subjective. That is the problem with it. Unlike other genres of video games what makes an RPG isn't really dependant on game mechanics, it is dependant as I said on more esoteric and subjective things that varies from person to person.

    It's why there is so much argument about it.

    But in saying that there is a limit...

    A game with RPG elements does not an RPG make. For example if you put levelling and skill trees into a Shooter does that suddenly make it an RPG?
    No it's a shooter with RPG elements.

    My apologies for not being clear there.

    TiaxRulesAll
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,681


    I didn't mean to snap at you. I just find it irritating because I have seen lots of games recently called RPGs and they completely are not; and it annoys me lol. Sorry.
    You only have to look at the Android and Apple app stores to see what I mean.

    Nah, it's quite all right. :) I used to get really annoyed at certain games that were labelled "adventure". When I grew up, adventure games were games like Monkey Island and The Uninvited where you solved puzzles.


    RPGs are at core about 3 central things, IMO.

    1- Deep Immersive Story.
    2- Player Agency.
    3- Choices with Consequences.

    I... I can't agree with this. :c

    If I did, the early Wizardry games would all not be considered RPGs, along with a host of other games which allowed you to create your own party, and had no story apart from a blurb in the manual that ended with 'get to the bottom/top of the dungeon to collect the magic item/destroy the great evil.

    And is Deus Ex then an RPG like some people say? -_-

    Even if I take a game with arguably a deep immersive story, it may not allow for choices with consequences. In the first 7 Final Fantasy games (sorry I haven't gone past 7), there is virtually no choice other than searching for hidden bosses and raising inbred chocobos. Your party just goes from one goal to the next (although in the later games, you don't necessarily have to go in strict order) while story happens around you.

    With the above 3 requirements, I think Fallout would fit as an RPG. :3


    I conclude... that I still say RPG is a dumb term! :u

    X3

  • ScotGaymerScotGaymer Member Posts: 525
    Ah but the thing is about that @tilly is that sometimes games have all the required (from my point of view) elements to be an RPG but other elements trump them and they are other types of games.
    And sometimes RPGs dont strictly have all of those things either but still qualify as RPGs because they have 2 out of 3 lol.

    Also as I said it generally varies from person to person. But almost always focusses on more esoteric story related elements rather than gameplay mechanics.

    I still maintain it's not the term; but the general understanding of it.

  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,681
    n.n

    I conclude that I remain confused :D I still think it's a stupid term ._. *pout*

    For me, the stories that came from a role-playing game were scenarios that I created in my head about the group of characters I made, going about on their adventure. Other than that, it was almost always the turn-based combat and the drawing of grid maps that defined an RPG for me. But much has changed since I've been here. ^_^'

    Well... one of these days I'll create a name that fits the genre perfectly. And I'm sure everyone will adopt it. nya! n_n

  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229
    Well lets just split RPG into groups. Story RPG = PST, Party RPG = BG1, Exploration RPG = Elder Scroll games, Action RPG = Diablo series. Fallout has a mix of party and exploration RPG but if needing to put it into one Exploration RPG would fit most.

    As for this topic, I think by what I read and trailers, Legends of Dawn fits most into Exploration RPG as well with difference to Elder Scroll games in not being first person or have what you use levels mechanics.

  • roboticsunroboticsun Member Posts: 42
    Diablo is more of a rogue-like RPG which emphasizes on randomly generated dungeons and items.

    This game to me is quite like Larian studios' Divine Divinity, but I do not think I will ever back such a game.
    The combat gameplay looks very boring too.

  • PinkRosePinkRose Member Posts: 102
    Let's break this down into bite sized pieces.

    Role - A character or part played by a performer.
    Playing - To occupy oneself in amusement,
    Game - Structured playing

    So a RolePlayingGame, or RPG becomes "A character or part played while occupying oneself in structured amusement."

    I submit that Halo is an RPG, because you assume the part of a soldier.
    Monopoly can be an RPG, if I make car or barking noises while moving my token.
    And Diablo is more an RPG than either of those two, as is BG and BG2.

  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229

    Diablo is more of a rogue-like RPG which emphasizes on randomly generated dungeons and items.

    This game to me is quite like Larian studios' Divine Divinity, but I do not think I will ever back such a game.
    The combat gameplay looks very boring too.

    Combat looks boring in BG games as well, and there are no combat animations to speak of but that does not make the combat actually boring. It is about mechanics behind combat and how it all works inside the game and interacts with other parts of the game. Diablo 3 has best combat animations but mechanics behind it are so stupid and empty (any weapon works with any class and any ability, damn which idiot came up with that idea...

  • H0RSEH0RSE Member Posts: 95
    edited January 2013
    Diablo is an action-rpg or 'hack-n-slash rpg, just like Dungeon Siege, Sacred, Titan Quest, and many others. It is a sub-genre of the traditional form of what an rpg is. Anyone who disagrees or claims games like Diablo are not rpg's, are just arguing semantics. Some opponents may even resort to the "No True Scotsman," fallacy.

    Ex:

    "Diablo is not an rpg."
    "But it it shares many of the mechanics and aspects of other rpg games."
    "Well, it isn't a true rpg."

  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229
    Update 5 is up. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/522716131/legends-of-dawn/posts/380351

    Crafting details and promise of more gameplay videos and new stretch goals next week.

  • H0RSEH0RSE Member Posts: 95
    The game in question looks like it could be good, but based on what I have seen, it doesn't really pull me in. Maybe I'm more vain than others, but a game has to be appealing to me in both gameplay and presentation. Games with fantastic aesthetics really help to pull me in, and this one didn't really seem to do that. Notice I said 'aesthetics' not 'graphics.' I game can have great graphics, but lousy aesthetics.

  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229
    Updates no11 and no12 have new videos. No. 11 is 2nd part non-combat gameplay video and no. 12 is art and soundtrack sample. Both are great. Check it out: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/522716131/legends-of-dawn/posts/387489

    BTW, kickstarter ends in 37h so if you want to get it cheap or want to support them with a bit more $ now is the time. We are trying to reach the 45 000 $ stretch goal so they are able to release very powerful Mod tools with the game (one of the updates is about those tools as well).

  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229
    edited July 2013
    This game came out. It had a rocky start with bugs, many are fixed, some still left but devs are working on it.
    It can be bought through Steam and Humble Bundle (non DRM version), not sure about GoG.

    So if you are looking for a old school RPG to play NOW get it. It does not have quest markers or many of the modern casual features like fast travel. It is a mix of NWN and Morrowind and a bit of Diablo (random loot and one click = one attack). Huge world, lots of exploring, you need to read quest and note them down, they don't even update when you do all that it says you need to do :D Also Encumbrance system. And read Manual to learn how to play. You get to explore a lot and find many fun stuff on your own.

    Lore is fun, different take on some known races (elves are warrior-like and buff), Gods are Slavic.
    Lots of different systems to play around with (spell crafting, item crafting, sacrifices to Gods, special unlock system with runes that you need to find first). Read the manual (I need to repeat this because you really do need to do it). Game done by a small indie studio, but also only 20$ on Steam. Also it will have a very powerful Editor for it that is coming in near future.

  • true_shinkentrue_shinken Member Posts: 83
    20 bucks is a lot for an indie game.

  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229
    edited July 2013
    Really? When AAA games cost 60$? And this one has 50+ h of playtime just to finish once. And it will have a editor.

  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    If it's fun and longer than 20 hours, it's worth the money, indie or not.
    In my opinion, anyway.

  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,867
    edited July 2013
    @true_shinken
    And 60 bucks for a 6 hour game is basically robbery.


    I won't pay a dime more then I think a game is worth, and to me, that value is time spent playing AND being enjoyable while doing so. If a game lasts me only slightly longer then it takes me to leisurely eat a 12 pack of Tacos then they better expect to only get 10-15 bucks for it, I don't care how "AAA" it is. And if it's a game with limited replay value, I'll probably rent it (in the case of PC games with limited replay (since Demos, if they exist at all, are usually worthless these days) I usually just pirate it, and if it proves enjoyable despite that, I'll buy a copy to show support...if not, well at least I'm not out any money on a horrible game).

    Post edited by ZanathKariashi on
    typo_tilly
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    So is this any good then? I cant make my mind up just by looking at the videos and screenshots on steam

  • TorinTorin Member Posts: 229
    Read my last post. Also this video does an open minded first impression http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kMmUdzekAqE

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Been playing the incredible adventures of van helsing. Seems like a better buy at the moment until this is more polished. Would definitely recommend

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