Archer or Fighter?

rdarken

If I ever get through my first playthrough as a Berserker, I intend to roll my next character as specializing in ranged weapons. First thought is to go Archer because that's what they do. However, thinking a bit more about it, is there really any reason to take Archer over Fighter? Sure, I'd get some priest spells eventually, but I would be pretty bad in melee between the no metal armor and the proficiency limit.

April

There are some fights in the game where you are forced to solo, even with a party, and in those fights it really helps if you are good at melee or can summon help, but kiting with speed potions should be enough, and I think all those fights are in BG 2 anyway. If you compensate with your party with melee fights then making the MC an archer shoudln't be a problem.

The archer kits perks don't really get noticeable until 9+ though and that's BGEE's level cap anyway so for BG1 it doesn't really matter anyway you choose it.

A minor extra ranged hitchance/damage vs being effective in melee.

valky

Hmm, I changed Kivan in my game to be an Archer and he is the leader regarding kills (35% party damage), experience and the 2nd in overall damage compared to the raw date of the info screen - and my only 'new' NPC was Neera.
But added him as soon as possible...

And BG1 is not reaaaaally that unforgivable then it comes to choosing a class or kit
BG1 got way more options with specific NPC, where you might be lacking something compared to BG2.

And with the unchanged stupid AI, the enemy does barely attack your ranged or mages, if placed properly, so it doesn't matter if he only can wear leather armor.

Just give it a try, if you don't feel to like it, re-roll Thus, there are already a lot of fighters to chose from ingame.

rdarken

Well, I'm working under the assumption that I'll take the guy through BG2, as well, so the level thing isn't too much of a concern. Though, @April, what do you mean that the perks aren't really noticeable until 9+?

Another thing, I don't want to end up with the same party on a second playthrough (in spite of my own habits). So if I'm playing a ranged class, I probably won't grab Coran or Kivan. And maybe I'll actually get to keep Khalid for once!

valky

Archer ends up getting insane in terms of damage That's what he/she probably meant to say....add 1dam/1thac0 for every 3 level and you'll get an "slightly" boost in ToB - not even Crom F. or any similar weapons can compete with, the only disadvantage might be the limitation to enchanted ammunition, which still counts as what you can hit. And in ToB I think +3 immunities aren't that uncommon.

On the other hand though, if you specialize in Crossbows (!) there might exist a weapon, those projectiles are counted as +4 or +5 after the upgrade
You'll be shooting with 1 Attack per round slower (compared to bows), but according some calculations it doesn't matter as Firetooth gets a hell of a bonus to thac0 and damage.
[on a sidenote, every weapon with unlimited ammunition in BG2 counts their enchantment on their projectiles to what it can hit - so you can abuse the bug, that you can still feed it the unlimited Quiver/Case of plenty - but then your new ammunition kicks in: it's really a weird bug but got fixed with either fixpack or similar]

Oh, with the BG-tweak pack and restored grandmastery, an Archer can get unbuffed 3.5 attacks per round with a crossbow or 4.5 with a bow (or 5 with the stupid shortbow in coppers coronet, as 5 is the unbuffed hardcap)


I can only speak of my current BG2/NPC package (Beyond the Law)..where you get a mage/thief and an Archer..oh boy, she does kick ass!

If that helps

rdarken

Definitely helpful, thank you!

valky

Arr, I forgot to mention the Sling from the bonus merchants It also fires +5 bullets by nature...but the damage is seriously low. (my game is fix-patched, so slings beside the only STR-sling ingame have no other bonus to damage)

And Firetooth is honestly a serious awesome weapon...1d8+4 damage + some minor fire damage (or upgraded to 1d8+5), you'd have a thac0 of at least -10 with level 20 and being an archer, so you will never ever miss; not to mention that you add the 'minor' bonus of +13 damage & thac0 by reaching level 40 :>
And upgraded there exist _NONE_ enemy, who is immune by nature against +5 weapons. (in vanilla with no SCSII installed the highest base-immunity is +4 in ToB)

Some People, who min/max their shit might disagree with me...but you ignore also spells like mantle/imp mantle and other minor annoying spells. But what good is a bow, which can shoot machine-gun fire if it doesn't penetrate the lowest of all enchantments (Tuigan Bow +1)
And the highest unlimited Case is +2 ammo or modded +3..still not enough.

The one and very only exception applies, if you 'd use Weimars' item upgrade package, you can tune up the bow found in *uhm* nalias castle to be a +5 magical non-ammo-needed-weapon too. But thanks to balancing it's only possible right before entering suldanessar.

[I love the crossbow !]

rdarken

If I wanted to go bow (which is likely) does that change your recommendation at all?

valky

Am currently haven't modded my NPC at all ^^ I only changed 1 NPC (Tyris...cause a dual fighter/mage with longsword focus..NAY..)
If using longbows *uhm* I think the adventures market's bow for the beginning, if you have the money, or use the steal/sell-bug or whatever - if you have 19 STR. It's a friggin awesome Bow with +3 dam and thac0 .yet I guess, if imported having 19 STR is the least problem.
Planars' sphere gives you a 18STR bow otherwise... (+2 dam/+2thac0)

Else, Heartseeker (long bow) is one bitch of a weapon (windspear hills...the Golem guarded compound)..but you ignore the thac0 anyway with being an archer, but the lesser the better (mind you..despite the other stuff, IMO the worst enemy got 'only' an AC of -14..somewhere in ToB..can't really remember ^^)

Else the other rules still applies, there are enemies, who do ignore +1/+2 ammo as per given Quiver/bag/case of plenty, yet you don't have to take care about buying basic ammunition. Still, the very few enemies, who are indeed immune to some specific weapons or enchantments, don't have necessary immunity to the other side-effect of a given ammunition (poison/fire etc)

And; it's up to the player I only stated, that the watchers keep crossbow is kinda OP....

edit: holy F..don't mind my grammar..am kinda drunken ^^

edit/edit: I lied even in my 1st sentence ^^ anyway..the best weapons IMO in SoA/ToB are:
- cele fury: the procc does apply also against enemies, who are immune to +3 weapon
- Flail of Lol + 5 = it's like casting slow every round =OP (would recommend to use the free-action mod, cause it was not intended, that free-action does protect you from getting hasted)
- Firetooth +5..hits everything even in ToB
- carsomyass... for whatever reason it's still the most OP weapon ingame
- GAYsen..+4 ammo? infininte? giev....
- either silver sword or halberd for sick decapitation-proccs (there are only a very few enemies protected against instant-death)
- hammer of *erm* runehammer...nifty item

Ppl who like Crom F..gtf ^^ that's the most useless weapon ingame....all it does is to give you 25 STR..it affects 2or3 (!) enemies in ToB...amazing power it does seem to wield, coupled with the most useless damage..

April

If we're talking ultimate weapons in SoA/ToB, in the vanilla game there is no really good long bow. Not in the same way that there are incredibly powerful short bows and crossbows at least. Still, with the archer bonus to damage that comes with the higher level cap, a longbow archer still has a high chance of being the highest damage dealer in a party by far.

Also, I'm actually taking an archer through SoA at the moment. He's level 14 at the moment and has got 5 pips in long bows, but soon he will have 5 pips in crossbows as well. What I mean is by the time you reach those high levels, you will have enough proficiency points to be able to efficiently use multiple types of ranged weapons anyway.