Mage/Thief Discussion
secretfire
Member Posts: 64
So, one of the most common characters in BG1/2 is the mage/thief. You have Imoen, Jan Jansen, Nalia, etc. But I don't see much discussion on their effectiveness or use, or the effectiveness of a protagonist Mage/Thief. My initial assumption would be that they would be one of the weaker Multiclasses, since mostly thieves are utility helpers, and you can get the traps/etc done on an npc. On the other hand.... backstab can be really, really nice, as I've seen on my Stalker/Cleric multiclass I'm currently going through BG:EE as.
So, some opinions and discussions, specifically on thief/mages. I'm mostly thinking of multiclass, but dual-class is nice too, I suppose, since Imoen and Nalia are both of this variety. The main benefit I can see of the dual-class is that it adds utility, without costing the mage half anything. The multiclass variety, on the otherhand, gets a full backstab progression, but at the cost of anything resembling a quick caster progression. It is fun to backstab people - but would that be worth the higher level spells?
Thoughts? How powerful could this be? How fun is this? Has anyone tried a shadowkeeper'd Assassin/Mage? multi? (Or bounty hunter/mage, or thief/wild mage)?
I am currently considering abandoning my Cleric/Ranger run for a multiclass assassin/mage run, as per shadowkeeper, but I'm not really sure if it'd be worth it or not.
So, some opinions and discussions, specifically on thief/mages. I'm mostly thinking of multiclass, but dual-class is nice too, I suppose, since Imoen and Nalia are both of this variety. The main benefit I can see of the dual-class is that it adds utility, without costing the mage half anything. The multiclass variety, on the otherhand, gets a full backstab progression, but at the cost of anything resembling a quick caster progression. It is fun to backstab people - but would that be worth the higher level spells?
Thoughts? How powerful could this be? How fun is this? Has anyone tried a shadowkeeper'd Assassin/Mage? multi? (Or bounty hunter/mage, or thief/wild mage)?
I am currently considering abandoning my Cleric/Ranger run for a multiclass assassin/mage run, as per shadowkeeper, but I'm not really sure if it'd be worth it or not.
Post edited by secretfire on
2
Comments
Because thieves level up fast, you won't be much behind normal mages.
Backstabbing and invisibility spells work great together, detect illusions frees up spell slots for more usefull spells and traps give another way to deal damage. The thief thac0 also helps for some spells, for example melfs meteors and generally makes archery an option for your mage.
I can see both assassin/mage and bounty hunter/mage working. With invisiblity you can have a lot more backstabs in one fight with the assassin, and I love the bounty hunter traps (lot more versatility). I would probably go with the bounty hunter if you choose to shadokeeper this, because the assassin 15%/level skills would hurt a lot for a multiclass and their special abaility (x7backstab) will come so very late.
1) Means you don't have to rely on the sub-par thieving of NPC thiefs in BG2 and TOB.
2) Over a regular mage, you gain the potential for +24 hp (d6 for 10 levels vs. d4 for 9 levels). I think you'll also have slightly better thac0 and saving throws but that's somewhat inconsequential.
All at the exceptionally low XP cost of 160k. Throw in Swashbuckler and you even get an AC bonus, because why not.
The easiest way to get multiple attacks each round is by dual wielding weapons that give extra attacks and by buffing up with haste or improved haste.
Knock and Invisibility ensure you're better at thievery with fewer skillpoints spent, meaning you can pour your points into actually being a competent trapfinder/disarmer.
When you do, inevitably, get the skillpoints to hide anyway, you'll be able to do it instantly you're out of sight and it won't be dispellable.
Invisibility plus Backstab is awesome.
You're not only capable of using a bow, you're pretty good with one thanks to not having Mage THAC0 progression.
Snares are not only powerful AOEs you don't need spell slots for, but they're non-magical and, with HLAs, obscenely powerful, saving level 9 spell slots on other spells, since you're busting out 20D6 damage and timestops multiple times a day. Since you're a multiclass, you get six more HLAs than even a pure Mage, picking from one of the best pools.
Dispel Illusions. It's pretty much better than True Sight.
Assassin: Don't even get their main perk till 21
Bounty Hunters: Same, those maze traps are beastly.
Swashbucklers: Can out-fight a fighter at very high levels using dual-speed weapons, and can cast spells from scrolls, so you really don't need the mage component. This applies to any thief really.
The single class would have a higher level over all, but the fact that the multiclass is getting MORE levels total, makes them superior. A mage that hits the level after they break 3 mil, gets 1 hla, a T/M that hits their 3 mil mark gets 2 HLA long before the mages gets it's 2nd HLA. This trend continues all the way to the cap.
Before a single class mage even has all their HLA, a T or F/M can have all their mage HLA and start getting several of their other class's HLA.
Gnome
- 19 INT (extra spells)
- Illusionist specialisation (extra spells at the cost of Necromancy)
- saving throw bonuses
Elf
- 19 DEX (better ranged THAC0 & better thief bonuses)
- -1 THAC0 with swords & bows
- keeps the option for Necromancy magic
- F/M/T option
as for the human duals, either vanilla thief->mage (if you want to keep backstabs) or swashbuckler->mage (if you don't care for backstabs)
Illusionist specialty on the other hand is a huge bonus giving an extra spell at every spell level making gnome the definite best choice. I mean, what could be better than casting your best spell twice?
Thief/mage multi is definitely one of the best class combinations in the game.