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Is changing a multi-classed PC to human cheating?

SultanPSultanP Member Posts: 15
edited December 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
I prefer the look of the humans in BG 1 and 2, as well as IWD 1 and 2, especially when wearing leather armor, and as such, if I want to make a multiclassed character, I will roll it as another race, and the use Shadowkeeper to change it to a human. Would you consider that cheating?
I know, I know, "single player game, play it the way you like", and I do. But what do you guys think?

As far as I remember, this does mean losing most of the benefits of the original race, such as extra magic resists, weapon specific thaco, or infravision, except for attribute points.

Edit: Also, once a character is rolled, what difference does race make in the game?

Comments

  • MechaliburMechalibur Member Posts: 265
    Well, yes, by definition that is cheating. That doesn't mean it should stop you if that's how you prefer to play the game.

    Hell, I was forced to cheat in BG2, because those damn nuts in the palace never spawn for me, so I have to cheat them in to get past that glitch.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    A human's only real advantage in 2e is dual-classing, so you're pretty much just losing out on race-specific bonuses. A half-elf, for example, is just like a human except with some resistances and a pickpocketing bonus. So as long as you aren't retaining racial bonuses like an elf's 19 dexterity, I say go for it.

    Do note that you can change your character's appearance with shadowkeeper without changing their race. I do this all the time with my non-human characters.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,420
    edited December 2012
    SultanP another thing to remember is that DMs using the 1E and 2E rule sets were ALWAYS modifying and changing rules for their own settings. Multi-classing, dual-classing, proficiencies, initiative, critical hits.... I've seen virtually every rule over-ridden or re-written at one time or another. So if you want to make some minor tweaks that don't really mess with play balance much, I wouldn't worry about it at all.

    One of my all time favorite characters in PNP was a half-elven Paladin. This was briefly legal (when Unearthed Arcana was published for 1E rules; but disallowed again by 2E), and the DM I was gaming with allowed the character to continue under 2E rules. So I have no qualms about using Shadow Keeper to take a human Paladin I've created and change the race to half-elf. I remember that character so well, and its fun to play an old friend in a new story.
  • unfortunate_oneunfortunate_one Member Posts: 44
    edited December 2012
    It has been a while since I have used GateKeeper, but I believe you can change the avatar to whatever you wish, without changing the race.

    Ya, what Madhax said.
  • SultanPSultanP Member Posts: 15
    edited December 2012
    Madhax said:


    Do note that you can change your character's appearance with shadowkeeper without changing their race. I do this all the time with my non-human characters.

    unfortunate_one said:

    It has been a while since I have used GateKeeper, but I believe you can change the avatar to whatever you wish, without changing the race.

    Ya, what Madhax said.

    You can indeed change only the appearance, but in my experience there are a number of things in the BG games that will change the appearance back to that of the actual race. So I ended up changing the actual race because I didn't want to keep having to change the appearance again.

    I can't remember what those things were, any more. But they were all appearance related, like putting on certain armors and polymorph spells and such.
  • KankKank Member Posts: 38
    Depending on what you want to be.. Half-Orc might fit the bill. They use the human avatar (Just not the paper doll). I also prefer the way humans look in general..
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    SultanP said:

    Madhax said:


    Do note that you can change your character's appearance with shadowkeeper without changing their race. I do this all the time with my non-human characters.

    unfortunate_one said:

    It has been a while since I have used GateKeeper, but I believe you can change the avatar to whatever you wish, without changing the race.

    Ya, what Madhax said.

    You can indeed change only the appearance, but in my experience there are a number of things in the BG games that will change the appearance back to that of the actual race. So I ended up changing the actual race because I didn't want to keep having to change the appearance again.

    I can't remember what those things were, any more. But they were all appearance related, like putting on certain armors and polymorph spells and such.
    Hm. Not saying you're wrong, but I've changed my elven PC to appear human the last two playthroughs I've done (One of BGEE, the other of the whole saga), and neither has ever been reverted in appearance.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    If you want to be the worst race in the game in order to look better, by all means go for it. Whilst not rules legal, artificially giving yourself a handicap like that is hardly going to unbalance the game.
  • SultanPSultanP Member Posts: 15
    Madhax said:


    Hm. Not saying you're wrong, but I've changed my elven PC to appear human the last two playthroughs I've done (One of BGEE, the other of the whole saga), and neither has ever been reverted in appearance.

    I figured it might have been one of those things that just happened to me. But I had my half-elves change back to look like half-elves enough times that I just ended up changing the race itself.
  • The_CheesemanThe_Cheeseman Member Posts: 175
    I've played through the game as a Shadow Thief and it never reverted it back on me. There was no paper doll, but I liked how it didn't matter what weapons and armor I used, I always looked cool!
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,420
    SultanP said:


    You can indeed change only the appearance, but in my experience there are a number of things in the BG games that will change the appearance back to that of the actual race. So I ended up changing the actual race because I didn't want to keep having to change the appearance again.

    I can't remember what those things were, any more. But they were all appearance related, like putting on certain armors and polymorph spells and such.

    I've had the same thing happen. I tried changing a big thug of a barbarian I was running into a half-ogre or something; but it wouldn't stick. I think he switched back every time I changed armor or something like that.

    I also agree about the elves/half-elves. I've tried to make them look human and it doesn't always stick. But I've had no problems changing the class for some reason. I may need to do more trouble shooting...
  • The_CheesemanThe_Cheeseman Member Posts: 175
    On another note, I suggest you not worry about what other people consider to be "cheating" and focus on enjoying the game however you see fit. We're not the ones playing your character, so our opinions really shouldn't matter.
  • SultanPSultanP Member Posts: 15
    The_Cheeseman said:

    On another note, I suggest you not worry about what other people consider to be "cheating" and focus on enjoying the game however you see fit. We're not the ones playing your character, so our opinions really shouldn't matter.

    I agree, figured I had taken care of this in the OP though.
    I was mostly considering the hypothetical situation that the "improved multiplayer" was implemented, and I found some game to join, and brought in one of these characters, it would be nice to know the general stance of the community.

    I can see how the title of the thread seems a bit like I'm concerned that I might be cheating, rather than an invitation to discussion, though.
  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Member Posts: 839
    edited December 2012
    Changing the appearance of your character has nothing to do with cheating. It's not even "dodgy manipulation", as it probably should have been a feature for those who don't like what humans/half-elves/rogues/whatever look like.

    I'm very glad the Keeper programs exist, because the IE games would be less fun without them. Of course, you gotta be careful you don't break the game for yourself by accidentally or willingly giving your chars too much of an advantage, but even then it only concerns you.

    In multiplayer, I wouldn't mind characters with modified appearance or even characters that are slightly manipulated to give them a weapon pip where they shouldn't have one, an ability point more than racial max or a flavourful special ability. It's all stuff that the original NPCs have, and I don't have anything against it. I do like characters that stray a little from the norm (that doesn't mean "all 18s", however ;).
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    Just find the thread on using Shadowkeeper and change your model to a male human without affecting your race. I always change Imoen to a human female mage after dual classing her.
  • SeveronSeveron Member Posts: 214
    I would say, go ahead and multi-class. I changed my Half-Elf to a Cleric/Conjurer as I really don't like being a Gnome.
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