Advanced Option: Slider Bar for Weapon Use Restriction

Bhryaen

This would look like (from left to right):
1- All weapon use open to all classes, but -X penalty applied to weapons outside class restrictions, with the exception of clerics (i.e., allowing non-blunt weapon proficiency without penalty).
2- All weapon use open to all classes, but -X penalty applied to weapons outside class restrictions (including clerics).
3- Normal weapon use restrictions by class. (DEFAULT)

There are elements of this in both mods Level1NPCs and Ashes of Embers and possibly more.
Level1NPCs: http://www.gibberlings3.net/level1npcs/
Level1NPCs Readme: http://www.gibberlings3.net/readmes/readme-level1npcs.html
Ashes of Embers: http://www.pocketplane.net/mambo/index.php?option=content&task=blogcategory&id=92&Itemid=77

I'm not sure if there is a PnP rule regarding weapon use restriction, but the intention is to provide for a more realistic weapon use system that does not magically prevent a thief from picking up a longbow or even a mage picking up a two-handed sword, just having them suffer an understandable penalty by doing so. The penalty itself could reasonably be set at -10 generally, though it's probably also more realistic to set it as:

-10 Mage types
-8 Thief types
-6 Cleric types

Or set up the three types with sliders of their own.

This is one in a series of game features I'd like added in a separate settings section called Advanced Options that would be available in a new "Advanced Options" Tab on the regular Settings Screen. It would be entirely optional to even peruse it, clearly designated as "Advanced" (even throwing in "Intended for more experienced players only" if that's deemed necessary). It would mean an in-game tweaking mechanism that would no longer require a mod.

Dee

I disagree with this, personally. To me, weapon restrictions are a part of the game - if you want to use a particular weapon, use a class that lets you use it.

EDIT: to clarify, I mean part of Baldur's Gate, not part of D&D. In D&D, any character can wield any weapon, albeit at a significant penalty without the proper training.

Aliteri

I too think this is tampering a little too much with the original game. I don't remember 2nd edition DND but weapon limitation is something that made classes different in the IE games - rather leave something like this down to personal preference.

Bhryaen

@Aosaw- Thanks, I haven't played DnD in a very long time, so at least now I know I was right that in DnD it's permitted but that there's a penalty. Do you know what the specific penalty for non-class weapon use is in 2E? Where's a rules lawyer when one needs one?

That said though, I'd be perfectly happy removing #1 and just relying on the one I actually use- #2: bringing it closer to PnP by imposing penalties, removing the arbitrary restriction on cleric weapon choices, removing the arbitrary prevention of a STR 18 Sorcerer from picking up a halberd, and giving the game that element of realism.

Dee

I should clarify further - 3e D&D is the edition that lets any character wield any weapon. 2e has the restrictions that exist in Baldur's Gate.

In 3e/3.5e, the penalty is -4, for any character who is not proficient with a given weapon. Baldur's Gate already has this "nonproficiency penalty", which your character suffers when he doesn't have a proficiency slot in the weapon in hand. class restrictions further restrict - so a wizard, rather than suffering a penalty, simply can't *wield* a longsword.

That said, I do think that maybe elves and dwarves should be able to wield their racial weapons - Elves with longswords, dwarves with axes.

Boaster

I disagree with this, personally. To me, weapon restrictions are a part of the game - if you want to use a particular weapon, use a class that lets you use it.

Agreed.

BlackRazor

I agree with Aosaw since imo dnd2ed rules were the most "correct" and fun rules. 3 and 3.5 are acceptable but alot of the value was lost. I would like to add how awesome this forum looks and it's great to be here, hopefully many ideas will be crafted here, but for now I feel it's a blessing 2ed rules will be used. This may change in a BG3 I've come to accept that, but right now 2ed will live again!
But Bhryaen I understand you. it is a possibility, penalties as well as attribute requirements that make it very hard for a class to use X weapons.

Dazzu

IWD did have +1 to hit bonuses for elves with large swords and bows and Halflings with slings darts ad small blades.

Boaster

IWD did have +1 to hit bonuses for elves with large swords and bows and Halflings with slings darts ad small blades.

Yes, and BG1 and BG2 said this was supposed to be so, right? At least in BG2 I'm sure.

Dazzu

I think it's bugged in BG games.

Bhryaen

I just edited this thread to remove the option to open weapons without penalty. That option has been bugging me...

The thing though about weapon use restriction in general is that it comes across heavy-handedly in-game. It's utterly stupid that if your shortsword breaks as a thief you have no alternative but to punch when in fact there's a halberd on the dead gnoll right next to you. That said, I'm not sure if weapon breakage is something native to vanilla BG1- i.e., due to the iron taint from the Nashkell mines. But still- say you'd swapped out to bow and had a full inventory but didn't notice you'd dropped your melee weapons. Now you're in melee combat and go for it but don't have it... and you're incapable of even picking up a non-class weapon at all? It's a lame-looking situation. And again I have PnP 2E DnD on my side...

And the restriction of clerics- particularly clerics of Helm, Torm, or evil deities- to blunt weapons... how exactly is that logical except on a metagamed level of engineering class balance? For balance clerics are already held back on attack bonuses and proficiency/ specialization from fighter types anyway.