BG:EE Mod in Progress Thorin NPC

CoM_Solaufein

Need feedback and input on this mod. This started out as an NPC for my Dark Horizons mod, but that never happened. Next it was a secret NPC project for BG2 but I decided to bring him to BG:EE instead. 90% of his dialogs are written. I just have to edit out the references he makes in BG2 so they are discussions about the events in BG1.

Tentative stats and history.



Dwarf
Neutral Good
Fighter

STR 18/94
CON 19
DEX 16
INT 11
WIS 10
CHR 10


Biography

When asked about his past, THORIN says he's from the famous Stoneblade clan who were once Durlag's captian of the guard for many years. His grandfather was the last to serve Durlag before unfortunate events happened to Durlag and his people. He would like to travel with the party to Durlag's Tower to retrieve some family heirlooms that may still be there and see what happened to his grandfather and the famous Durlag Trollkiller.

What is set in stone:
Being a dwarf
His neutral good alignment
Being a fighter

But I haven't decided if he should be a straight fighter or one of the kits. One kit I don't see is berserker. He's a little more refined and in control of himself in battle than someone who goes crazy with blood lust in battle.

I see him being the type who holds honor high, who is not afraid to engage in battle, he loves his ale like any other dwarf and he loves to tell stories and sing songs of his exploits in battle. A typical non-evil dwarf IMO.

What is up in the air:
His portrait. I've seen a lot of them that I like from some of the topics in this forum.
Stats
Biography

neoesprit

mmm I think his stats are a litte OP... maybe you should lower his dexterity... with already 18/94 str and 19 con, lower dex seems necessary to "balance" your Npc.

Straight Fighter seems to be the only good choice (I don't see him as a Kensai nor a Wizard Slayer - which is a worthless kit by the way - nor a berserker). Maybe create a Kit that would fit him (some sort of Guardian maybe ?)

The portrait is not so bad but there are so many that could fit !

I like the idea behind the Durlag's heritage, that could give some really good quest

Archaic

I think a custom kit as @neoesprit mentioned would make this NPC perfect. I would also agree that the stats are a little OP. Lower dex or con just a bit. Looking forward to it when you finish it. Awesome bio/history. Great work!

Kamigoroshi

The Shieldbearer kit from the Six's Kitpack could fit his personality quite well. On the other hand... since this kit requires a Lawful alignment, you may be better off to create a custom to match his Neutral Good alignment. Some sort of Dwarven Fighter kit specialized in crossbows, for example, could bring some fresh air into BG:EE imho.

Here are two alternative portraits which may fit Thorin, depending what kind of Fighter kit you'll give him.

CoM_Solaufein

The above portraits look good.

His dex and con will probably take a hit. Come to think about it, none of the in game kits would work. I can't see a dwarven warrior not wear armor. The kit suggestion sounds good. I'll take a look at the AD&D book on dwarves to see what types of kits that has as well.

LiamEsler

What sort of content will Thorin have?

CoM_Solaufein

Banters with the NPCs and the new ones. A few interjections. A custom weapon, haven't decided on what type it will be. He'll will probably find some artifacts in Durlag's Tower that belonged to his family and he may find out what happened to his grandfather.

OurQuestIsVain

How about the his last name is Oakenshield and he leads a party of dwarves and one hobbit to reclaim his kingdom under the lonely mountain...j/k. Sounds like a straight up fighter might be a good kit for him. Will he have any special talents like acid arrow making, summoning ghasts, casting invisibility? From your description I can picture Thorin having lots of good stories like Canderous from KotOR or Zaeed from ME2, I always loved characters like that. His ability scores are awesome, they are a little OPed compared to regular BG NPCs but pretty much right on with the EE (Dorn). I like him the idea of his story being related to Durlag's Tower but would that mean you can only pick him up later in the game? If you can pick him up early would there be a time limit on getting his quest done? If he is only available late don't give him crappy rolls for HP, you don't have to give him max but don't make him roll 1's.

LiamEsler

Can't wait to see him. Be great to have some new NPCs in BG:EE!

neoesprit

@Com_Solaufein : If you want, I could work on descriptions of a kit that could fit your npc. I'm working with @Requiem on his Kitpack, you can always check it to see what's in here

CoM_Solaufein

The name Albrecht is something I've been thinking about for a while. I like dwarves with Nordic/Germanic names. No time limits. I'm not a fan of time limits in quests. Being a procrastinator myself, it'll get down when it gets done when it comes to quests.

I can do checks in his dialog that acknowledges if you done Durlag's or not.

OurQuestIsVain said:

How about the his last name is Oakenshield and he leads a party of dwarves and one hobbit to reclaim his kingdom under the lonely mountain...j/k. Sounds like a straight up fighter might be a good kit for him. Will he have any special talents like acid arrow making, summoning ghasts, casting invisibility? From your description I can picture Thorin having lots of good stories like Canderous from KotOR or Zaeed from ME2, I always loved characters like that. His ability scores are awesome, they are a little OPed compared to regular BG NPCs but pretty much right on with the EE (Dorn). I like him the idea of his story being related to Durlag's Tower but would that mean you can only pick him up later in the game? If you can pick him up early would there be a time limit on getting his quest done? If he is only available late don't give him crappy rolls for HP, you don't have to give him max but don't make him roll 1's.

CoM_Solaufein

Thanks.

Kaeloree said:

Can't wait to see him. Be great to have some new NPCs in BG:EE!

CoM_Solaufein

There is a class/kit that I've always liked and that was the Hammer of Moradin. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Hammer_of_Moradin

The AD&D Book of Dwarves really didn't have any kits I liked.

neoesprit said:

@Com_Solaufein : If you want, I could work on descriptions of a kit that could fit your npc. I'm working with @Requiem on his Kitpack, you can always check it to see what's in here

Archaic

@CoM_Solaufein - @Ogaburan has a really nice portrait for his forum avatar you should check out for your NPC.

Ogaburan

Thanks!
Only wish i could remember where i got the picture form, to give due credit.

...and in case OP missed the excellent baldares'que portrait pack;



dl link; http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/1032-paintbg-for-bgee/

Made by the most talented people at teamBG.
It has really nice dwarven portraits in it.

neoesprit

@CoM_Solaufein : I like the idea of Hammer of Moradin but its feels more like a Paladin prestige class. And with the racial restriction of BG I'm not sure you'll be able to give some sort of spellcasting to your kit as a fighter (maybe via the ability button but it would become crowded with all the bhaalspawn spells)

Have you checked this prestige class ? http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Dwarven_defender ? I think it could fit perfectly for a fighter, and I'm sure I can imagine some nice abilities to go with it. Some will say that's a third edition class but I'm not sure if that's relevant considering that Dwarven have always been Dwarven and always had skilled warriors in their ranks (they did not suddenly appeared with third edition lol)

CoM_Solaufein

The Defender looks good.

I already have two berserkers in a mod so I am done with them. I like the idea of a dawrven fighter who is tactical, in control of himself in the heat of battle and would hit you like a ton of bricks.

secretfire

I like the idea of the character. I don't even mind his first name - its a decent Hobbit reference without being over the top. Could be interesting.

One idea I would suggest is - since he's obviously going to have huge integration with Durlag's Tower, try interjecting some 'proactive' comments and decisions relating to the tower and Ulgoth's Beard. What I mean is... every NPC makes comments, but I've seen a few NPCs that seem 'extraordinarily alive', such as Valen, because, on occasion, they'll make a decision on their own, or take some action without consulting the player. When you build the NPC, have banter, commentary, etc in and around those areas, perhaps a quest - but also try and find areas and interactions where the NPC could speak up and do something, to interject and make a decision. Not often, or over the top ... such could easily get annoying ... but done right, that sort of thing can really make a character feel alive, and I don't really recall many NPC's that do this; usually even the most obsessive, demanding and annoying NPCs rarely make any actual decisions, and speaking in terms of characterization, it would be interesting to see this, especially as issues of clan and ancestry would be pretty serious stuff, for a dwarf.

I could also see him having great sympathy for, and dialog with, Yeslick. Not only are they both dwarves, but have also both suffered pretty horrific losses to their respective clans and their ancestral homes. Could make for a pretty interesting friendship.

Regarding feedback on the background and goals ... I like them. Everyone wants to do the big epic stories. BG, and to some extent, d&d are about big epic stories. But as the book his name references shows, sometimes big epic stories arn't about becoming a god or stopping a war, but about small things ... like honor, or remembering your clan through stories and song, and who you sit beside when you drink your ale, and what your honor really means to you when it matters. A dwarf who focuses on the celtic warrior ideal, while still being a dwarf, could be very popular.

CoM_Solaufein

Thorin the dwarven NPC has been around since I conceived Dark Horizons in 2002-2003.

I'm sure he'll have some good dialogs with Yeslick. Both dwarves, both good aligned and they have suffered losses in their life times.

I never cared for Biwoare making Korgan and Kagain evil characters. If they wanted evil dwarves they should have went Deurgar dwarves.

Here's some background on how I feel about dwarves in my upcoming the Undying version 3 BG2 mod. http://www.baldursgatemods.com/forums/index.php?topic=5294.0

The Battle of the Fallen is how I described it and the excerpt part is told from a dwarven point of view.

Xavioria

Everything you made sounds awesome, and a dwarven NPC is a great idea... However, I have a question... Would leaving him as pure class fighter make him overshadowed by kagain?

CoM_Solaufein

I don't think he will be. I'm not going to have him start off as level 1. He's seen the world and has some experience under his belt. Also he won't join you if you are evil. Honor and evil don't mix. So evil based players will have to stick with Kagain. He'll be good with axes or hammers, one of the two. I haven't decided which one he will excel at.

Xavioria

I would say axes... since Yeslick would probably using hammers... that way there's no overlap... that's just my two cents though. I can see how he can be the good alternative to Kagain (or kagain is the evil alternative to Thorin?)

CoM_Solaufein

It probably will be axes but then again Yeslick can't get grandmastery with hammers.

Ecthelion

At last a good dwarf. I can't deny that I'm thrilled to see what you've got under your sleeve with that NPC! Instead of 19 of CON, maybe make a custom item that you can't unequip that can be related to his biography. Like a bracer for the captain of the guards of Durlag symbol of his deceased grandfather status.
Well good luck with him!

CoM_Solaufein

Thanks for the feedback.

Xavioria

Or maybe a necklace considering there aren't that many good ones in BG1? And you are right about that grandmastery thing... I didn't think about that... although perhaps I keep looking at the gear selections in this game and there's only the one hammer. Or am I wrong about that?

CoM_Solaufein

There's a few hammers worth taking.

I haven't given up on this, just been busy.

CoM_Solaufein

Thorin is a part of Dark Horizons.

revaar

With the dwarven defender kit coming out since our last update here, would that be a good fit for Thorin? It seems to fit his backstory pretty well.

CoM_Solaufein

That is the class kit he will use. I want to make use of the kits and not the plain old classes.

Drugar

CoM_Solaufein said:

Thorin is a part of Dark Horizons.

Will he only be a part of Dark Horizons or will he also be a seperate download for people who are otherwise not particularly interested in Dark Horizons but *are* very interested in this NPC?