epic level blade

Allbrother

I was just thinking about how to turn a blade into a one man army and this is what I came up with

1. Mislead
2. Make clone invisible
3. Have clone sing epic bard song
4. Offensive spin
5. ...
6.Profit

Could also throw in a time stop trap somewhere in there
And cloak of non-detection & robe of vecna might be useful

Thoughts?

marfig

Silchas said:

Thoughts?

Mislead double can't talk or cast spells.

Allbrother

He can sing though

marfig

Actually he can. And talk. I just went and checked the Spellbook. But mislead can't cant spells. He won't be able to cast those songs into a Bard Song. Mislead creates an illusion. For the same reason mages won't be able to cast spells through their clones, bards won't be able to use bard songs. Bard Songs are spell-like abilities.

Allbrother

marfig said:

Bard Songs are spell-like abilities.

No, they are not
If they were, there wouldn't be a need for a clone to sing - the bard could do it himself and still attack
The song works in the same way as rogue's hide in shadows or priest's turn undead

marfig

No it doesn't. Just read the AD&D manuals. I won't be quoting them, I'm sorry. Bard songs spell-like abilities that create magical effects.

But if you don't have access to any and you still don't want to take my word for it, let me put it to you another way: every song requires the bard to pass a Perform check. Illusions, don't have a Perform skill.

On completely different account, Mislead is a 5th level spell. This means your bard would need to be at least level 14th. At that stage, Greater Invisibility is hardly something you can use to fool everyone. At level 14, your Bard will meet a whole lot of enemies capable of easily seeing through the illusion.

Allbrother

I don't need manuals, I've tested it in-game
Don't believe me? Test it yourself

As for the enemies seeing through my illusions - spell immunity: divination

sandmanCCL

How to make a blade OP:

1) Make a blade.
2) There is no step 2.

marfig

Silchas said:

I don't need manuals, I've tested it in-game
Don't believe me? Test it yourself

As for the enemies seeing through my illusions - spell immunity: divination

Sure. Have loads of fun.

TJ_Hooker

marfig said:

No it doesn't. Just read the AD&D manuals. I won't be quoting them, I'm sorry. Bard songs spell-like abilities that create magical effects.

But if you don't have access to any and you still don't want to take my word for it, let me put it to you another way: every song requires the bard to pass a Perform check. Illusions, don't have a Perform skill.

There seems to be some confusion here. He's not talking about how it works PnP, or what the rulebooks say, he's talking about how it works in Baldur's Gate the video game. I mean, the perform skill doesn't even exist in BG.

marfig

Yeah. I noticed that he was talking about BG2 when he mentioned he tested it in the game. I could have worded my last post a bit better though. "Sure. Have loads of fun" hardly qualifies as a recognition.

That said, I never knew Mislead could sing bard songs in BG2. Granted I rarely ever played a Bard there. It's however something I will be looking into modding out myself once BG2EE is released. (I don't actually support the idea Overhaul should change it. I'd prefer if they left the game as close to the original and let modders deal with balancing issues... as discussed on another thread)

It's a gross misinterpretation of the AD&D rules and I can't accept that

Ulysiss

You could try an get your hands on a Simacrulum (sp?) Scroll. It would be a once off but fun none the less.

TJ_Hooker

marfig said:

Yeah. I noticed that he was talking about BG2 when he mentioned he tested it in the game. I could have worded my last post a bit better though. "Sure. Have loads of fun" hardly qualifies as a recognition.

That said, I never knew Mislead could sing bard songs in BG2. Granted I rarely ever played a Bard there. It's however something I will be looking into modding out myself once BG2EE is released. (I don't actually support the idea Overhaul should change it. I'd prefer if they left the game as close to the original and let modders deal with balancing issues... as discussed on another thread)

It's a gross misinterpretation of the AD&D rules and I can't accept that

Yeah I didn't know that the clone from mislead could sing either. It's probably a bug, seeing as how the spell description states it can't perform any action other than moving. Also, it's actually a 6th level spell, which bards don't get a lot of, so I'm not sure if I'd use it too much myself.

sandmanCCL

marfig said:

I'd prefer if they left the game as close to the original and let modders deal with balancing issues... as discussed on another thread

Holy cow, someone who gets it. It's refreshing to run into someone else with a similar opinion though from the other side of the argument. It's kind of tiring when people are all, "OMG NERF NOW WRAGERBABBLE" about every last little blip that offends their notion of game balance and make entitled demands.

Alsn

Ulysiss said:

You could try an get your hands on a Simacrulum (sp?) Scroll. It would be a once off but fun none the less.

UAI + Vhailor's helm.

Edit: And it's Simulacrum, just fyi. ^^

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Allbrother

Alsn said:

Ulysiss said:

You could try an get your hands on a Simacrulum (sp?) Scroll. It would be a once off but fun none the less.

UAI + Vhailor's helm.

This I did not think of
Nice idea, thanks

SpaceInvader

Why not cloneS?
The bonus of each chant will stack.

Another funny thing (but I think they fixed it) was using an Offensive Spin then put the Ring of Free Action on.

ajwz

You used to be able to use the ring of free action so that you could move around normally during an offensive or defensive spin, which made them ridiculously powerful. I'm not sure if this has been fixed in enhanced edition.

SpaceInvader

@ajwz you are 7mins late xD

szb

Never understood why blade gets improved bardsong. It pretty much makes all the other kits obsolete at that point. Blade shouldn't be able to get improved bardsong, and all the other kits should have different improved bardsongs.

and_then_or

@marfig I feel you bro. I hate it when people change definitions to suit thier own needs.

Fortunetly, in this instance, it could not be more trivial.

Rhyme

From User Unfriendly's Cheese Guide, "The Hero's Guide to A Successful Adventure":

-----

Image Exploits

This does not really belong in the spell cheese exploits section, since its far more fundemental....images and simuacrums and mislead clones are really evil things.. truly the must have spell for all cheesers....project image, simmy and mislead...

Project images and simmys lets you cast spells without using up your own pool of memorized spells, and use items without expending single use scrolls and devices, but not everyone knows their true abuse abilities..

Your image can summon more pets than the game allows you to, normally...like cast project image and your sorc can summon 20 planetars, or cleric mages can summon 20 devas or using the Vhailor's helm (bought at the adventure mart) summon multiple elemental princes using jahirea or cernd...also, jan or a custom thief mage can set more than 7 spike traps in a map...(but this is nerfed by wes weimer's tactics mod, but a image or simmy can still override the summon limit even with the mods installed)

Mislead clones, (yes you can cast the spell multiple times, each cast will produce another mislead decoy) can sing the enhanced bard song, and the bonuses stack, so haer'dalis can cast many misleads and each decoy can sing enhanced bard song, which affects the whole map! A chorus of mislead decoys singing enhanced bard song provides major bonuses to your party, since the song bonuses stack....(and the song affects the entire map, so stick the decoys in a safe spot and have them sing their lungs out! for example, stick your decoys in one of the rooms in the 5th level of watcher's keep, and do this little trick, once you shut the door, the decoys are safe.)

tips

Now i know images far better than simmys, both have their weaknesses and strengths..



Images can cast all the spells of the original, and chaining 3 images in chain contingency produces 3 images, but true sight, dispell magic(by a sufficiently high level mage) and deathspell will destroy them...they also cannot attack meelee without shapeshifting...



Simmys are level drained versions of the original, so they have less spells and power and duration of the spells is reduced, also you can only have one simmy at a time, (unless you have a image summon simmys) but a simmy is immune to dispell and true sight, but deathspell will kill them. They can attack without shapechange, and uses duplicates of the magical weapons you have looted so far...



...finally, mislead....send the decoy out of sight of the enemy, and the mage who is mislead cannot be true sighted....the decoy must be in sight of the enemy for them to true sight the mage....

another super ability of images, simmys and decoys is they dont trigger dialog or spawns, so sending in a simmy or image to pretrap, or cast many delay blast fireballs and skulltraps works really well...see the spawn points exploits below...

You may only have one simmy at a time, the game engine enforces this...how ever, your image can spawn a simmy and vice versa...for a truly authoritative explaination of multigenerational clones, please check out Xyx's spell guide.

-----

If you haven't played around with image cheese, you're really missing out.