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Equip Ogre Mages with katanas

The Oger Mages in BG should be equipped with katanas to better reflect their ADD monster design. Also, this would be a simple way to include more katanas (magical) in BG.
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Comments

  • Prince_of_LiesPrince_of_Lies Member Posts: 90
    @DivergentZen The whole point is that Katana are from Kara-Tur, and thus are rare in the Sword Coast (magic ones exceptionally so). Not to mention, Katana are already powerful; having a fast attack speed, being single-handed weapons, and having the same damage as two-handed swords.

    -Prince_of_Lies
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    @Prince_of_Lies True, but I'd like to see more katanas in BGEE. As they are currently implemented, the proficiency is largely a waste of time and a trap for newer players, since it's difficult to afford one in Candlekeep, most merchants don't sell them, and there's only one in the game.

    If Ogre Mages traditionally wield katanas, this seems like a reasonable way to implement them more thoroughly into BGEE.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited December 2012
    And Ogre magi are from Kara-tur (or whatever your setting's Asian-ish nation is). Hell the Monster manual outright calls them Japanese Ogres. Their model is even shown clearly wielding a katana.
  • Prince_of_LiesPrince_of_Lies Member Posts: 90
    @Madhax, @ZanathKariashi, I'm mostly opposed to them having magic Katana.

    Also, Kara-Tur is part of Forgotten Realms... It's like an oriental continent of Abeir-Toril.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited December 2012
    I'm aware of FR, but Ogre magi exist in just about all 2nd edition settings, and each one has at least 1 land with a asian-ish nation from which they originally hail.

    And I don't know...Ogre Magi are actually very powerful and high level creatures with a bunch of at-will spell like abilities, and several other per day abilties. It seems pretty likely they'd have at least a +1 or 2 katana, especially the really powerful ones, like the one in the sewer. Though generic ones without a name, yes a plain katana is fine. Maybe a +1 one for weaker named ones (that one with the Neirid), and then a +2 for the one in the sewer.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Or just a +1 for the one in the sewer, depending on the developers' views on the rarity of magical katanas. I wouldn't want random encounter ogre magi dropping magical katanas either, but a few normal katanas dropping about would be nice. As it is, it seems like almost a waste of time to have implemented them.
  • Prince_of_LiesPrince_of_Lies Member Posts: 90
    edited December 2012
    @ZanathKariashi, Ogre Magi are in every edition, including third and fourth. They were first introduced to Forgotten Realms with the addition of Kara-Tur. Originally, when they were introduced to D&D, they were in a supplement for the 1st edition Greyhawk setting.

    +2... Your crazy. Normal +2 weapons are included as mid-late to late game loot... Katana are supposed to be extremely rare in Faerun (the completely opposite side of Abeir-Toril from Kara-Tur).

    I agree with @Madhax maybe a +1 named katana with a fancy enchantment for the named one in the sewer, but normal katana for the others.

    Magic in Kara-Tur is also rarer than it is in Faerun.

    -Prince_of_Lies

    EDIT: @ZanathKariashi, Sorry, I sped-read and thus misread the first bit, disregard the beginning bit. That being said, only the Forgotten Realms lore applies to Ogre Magi in Baldur's Gate.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited December 2012
    +2 is actually pretty common in Kara-tur amongst the most powerful beings (which Ogre magi are). I could see ONE +2 katana, and maybe one +1 to the other named one.

    If it was +3 though, that stuff is national treasure artifact level for Kara-tur.

    And that really fails to account for the glut of magical katanas down in Amn. Yes, Amn is a trade heavy nation with the biggest temple of Waukeen in all of Faerun located in Athkatla (that is for some reason missing from BG2, it's not the promenade since there's no priests of Waukeen anywhere around there, and would actually be in the dock district according to the city description), but BG is just as cosmopolitan with trade for the sword-coast area as Athkatla is for Amn and should have similar access, or if nothing else the Ogre magi would've simply brought it with them, I mean hell the one in the sewer has literally all the abilities and Ogre magi possesses (except flight, for obvious reasons), and by the treasure guide in the manual would have access to +2 items easily, and +3 more rarely. The other Ogre magi display fewer and fewer abilities, so would be overall weaker and have less goods.
  • Prince_of_LiesPrince_of_Lies Member Posts: 90
    By which chart/page/book are you referring too? They definitely do NOT have access to +3 items at level 5-9.... They MIGHT have access to +2 items, albeit rarely.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited December 2012
    Monster manual, 2nd edition. Ogre magi entry and using the table at the back of the book.
  • Prince_of_LiesPrince_of_Lies Member Posts: 90
    The Monstrous Manual was mostly used as a broad reference point for most creatures in the 2e AD&D system... You'd want to look specifically at AD&D 2e Monstrous Compendium Kara-Tur Appendix specifically for the loot. (google it)

    I can assure you, no ogre-mage (except for perhaps, an ogre-mage chieftain) has a +3 magical weapon. +2 is rare, but +1 or unenchanted is most likely.

    -Prince_of_Lies
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  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    This is an excellent suggestion. Ogre magi aren't common enough to make it super-available, but they're common enough that you can reliably focus on katanas and not be worried about never finding one.

    Giving magical katanas to the more "well-known" ogre magi would also put more magical katanas in the game, which would still leave them at a lower number than other weapons, while giving a decent lore reason why they exist in the first place.
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    Madhax said:

    @Prince_of_Lies True, but I'd like to see more katanas in BGEE. As they are currently implemented, the proficiency is largely a waste of time and a trap for newer players, since it's difficult to afford one in Candlekeep, most merchants don't sell them, and there's only one in the game.

    Oh, if only there was some sort of warning when you select your proficiencies!
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    I think that the ogre magi on the 3rd floor of cloakwood mines feels like he should definitely have given the player a decent reward. If you are gonna put a new magical katana somewhere, put it there.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I'm all for weapons being rare, @CamDawg, but "This weapon is extremely rare" isn't the same thing as "There's only one of this weapon in the entire game world". Certainly it shouldn't be available from every shop or dropped from every enemy, but there should be enough to make the investment worthwhile, even if it takes a while to get there.

    In this case, it's a monster that isn't very common, and it matches both the lore and the creature's given animation.

    In fact, I would posit that the ogre mage has a bastard sword in its dropped inventory not because it's more balanced, but because it was the best reasonable substitute for a katana in a game that did not yet include katanas (and then in BG2 it was maintained for continuity, which doesn't make it a good design choice).
  • Prince_of_LiesPrince_of_Lies Member Posts: 90
    Technically, there are two. :P
  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    Actually, there are three. :)
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    Aosaw said:

    In this case, it's a monster that isn't very common, and it matches both the lore and the creature's given animation.

    They're also wearing splint in their animation--I look forward to free katanas from non-spellcasting ogre magi. And again, this will make katanas more common than scimitars, something that's not rare at all.

    We've already got modders putting +5 weapons into BGEE. If you want BGEE to be an embarrassing Monty Haul, just be patient, but I don't think it should ship that way.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    CamDawg said:

    Madhax said:

    @Prince_of_Lies True, but I'd like to see more katanas in BGEE. As they are currently implemented, the proficiency is largely a waste of time and a trap for newer players, since it's difficult to afford one in Candlekeep, most merchants don't sell them, and there's only one in the game.

    Oh, if only there was some sort of warning when you select your proficiencies!
    The warning existed in BG2, as well. But in BG2 you could find plenty of unenchanted katanas throughout the city, and enough magical ones to make the proficiency very much worthwhile. Unless they changed the wording of the warning in BGEE to "New players will ABSOLUTELY FAIL if they attempt to focus on this proficiency", I don't see your point.
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    Sure, but it's not quite an apple-to-apple comparison. In BG2 you're looking for high-end weapons and there the katana rarity continues to hold. For high level katanas you've got Celestial Fury (which is a phenomenal weapon, but the +3 ends up making it a bit limited at the very end) and Hindo's Doom +4, which is downright pedestrian next to the selection of other weapons.

    Four weapon types aren't represented in BG2 above +4: katanas, wakizashis, ninja-tos, and darts.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Speaking of which, there really needs to be at least one returning dart in BG2.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    There is...Crimson Dart returns..and is +3, and is stupidly easy to get...though it does require the ToB expansion since it's on the 1st floor of Watcher's Keep. Though if you meant BGEE..I could see it...+1 max though...
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    Could somebody list the Ogre Magi existing? I remember/know of
    [spoiler]1. Dude in sewers
    2. Dude in cloakwood
    3. Dude in the Firewine Bridge canyon, though I'm not certain that was meant to be an Ogre Magi.[/spoilers]

    Are those all?
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    There are a total of twelve Ogre Mage .cre files (I looked them up in NearInfinity), four of which are used in specific memorable encounters. However, @AndreaColombo produced some illuminating information yesterday, which seems relevant and might be worth posting here.
  • dibdib Member Posts: 384
    scriver said:

    Could somebody list the Ogre Magi existing? I remember/know of
    [spoiler]1. Dude in sewers
    2. Dude in cloakwood
    3. Dude in the Firewine Bridge canyon, though I'm not certain that was meant to be an Ogre Magi.[/spoilers]

    Are those all?

    There's like five of them in a building in Baldur's Gate. Don't remember exactly where though.
  • DivergentZenDivergentZen Member Posts: 7
    Just remembering the picture in the old monstrous manual...

    But the main thing is to just let katanas be a viable weapon in BG. Giving them to an Oger Mage or two wouldn't break anything.
  • DeucetipherDeucetipher Member Posts: 521
    edited January 2013
    Oooo, I like the idea of giving them scimitars. I might do that myself locally, and maybe drop a +1 on the Firewine one. I think I remember him being tougher then the sewers one, or am I crazy?

    [spoiler]
    EDIT: Ok, his name is Kahrk (kahrk.cre) and he gives 3500 xp, has way more hp and better spells then the typical OM. Weirdly equipped with a longsword.
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