Want to play a Thief or F/T

hammernanvil

Considering playing a Bounty hunter or possibly a Fighter/Thief, Is it even worth playing a F/T in BG1 if you can only get to lvl 8 as a fighter?

sandmanCCL

Yes. Yes it is.

I don't really know how to elaborate on this. You are a competant thief, and a competant fighter this way.

Quartz

I think you mean they get to Fighter 7/Thief 8. Which is completely beast, btw. Sure you stop just short of Thief 9 so you don't get your backstab quadruple damage, but seriously ... Fighter/Thief in BG1 is plenty powerful.

hammernanvil

So I basically grind it out as a fighter till lvl 7 and then the game is near over by the time I dualclass thief to level 8...

Ive never completed BG1.. yet, so I dont know how long the game runs past hitting the level cap...

moopy

I think you are confusing 2 different options.

You can 1) dual class or 2) multi class

If you multi class you pick to be a Fighter / Thief from the start during character creation and level up in those classes simultaneously. I recommend this for beginner players to dual or multi classes, as it is normally more fun and less work as you get to enjoy having the power of both classes all the way.

If you dual class you wont be able to enjoy both classes abilities at the same time until you are 1 level higher in the second class than the first class is. Also, you can never progress in the first class again. So in the exampke that you go to Fighter 7 / Thief 8 as a dual class you wont enjoy being a Fighter / Thief until you hit the xp cap at the end of the game.

Other Information:

Only humans can dual class
Only non humans can multi class, and any non human can multi to Fighter / Thief.

I'd try a Dwarf F / T and max con, dex, str. As a dwarf with maxed con you will have amazing saving throws.

Edit:
A Hafling F/T would also get great saving throws and specializing in slings could be fun.

A Half Orc F/T could start with 19 str giving you amazing to hit and to damage starting at level 1.

Quartz

Dual-classing Fighter->Thief in BG1 is pointless anyway. You end up at the exact same level, except you have to work your ass off, and you have to be a human which means no thieving score bonuses. Epic fail. Do a multi-class Halfling or Dwarf for sure.

Dwarf Fighter/Thief = slightly better at Fighter (due to being restricted to 17 Dexterity, but being able to hit 18/?? Strength unlike Halfling which is restricted to 17 Strength)
Halfling Fighter/Thief = slightly better at Thief (due to being able to hit 19 Dexterity, so awesome thieving bonuses and better with ranged weapons)

Take yer pick.

hammernanvil

No I was thinking of dualclass/human, that's why I was wondering if it was worthwhile, seems like I would be playing 15 levels just to get to the end of the game and finally be... a F/T

moopy

Quartz just summed it up perfectly.

But no, in BG1 dual classing F / T wouldn't be worth it unless you really wanted a Fighter Kit like Kensai to Kai Backstab or wanted to dual at 6 Fighter so you could get to 9 Thief and get the 4x backstab, but it really isn't worth it IMO.

But unless you fall into one of those specific scenarios you'd enjoy a multi class F/T in BG1 a lot more.

Edit:

Let me elaborate even further. I just ran a Berserker 6 / Thief 9 to have rage and backstab 4x, and it would have been a lot more enjoyable if I had run a F/T.

ZanathKariashi

Dwarves are also good thieves skill-wise. While they and halflings technically get the same amount of racial points, dwarves are more concentrated then Gnomes or halflings who spread them out thin...which while not really bad per say, when you're making a specialized character it hurts a bit. Dwarves make awesome bounty hunter, since their racial stuff is mostly in traps/locks/set traps. And despite the slight disadvantage they have in dex, potential for natural regen, MUCH better saves, and the ability to hit 19 str are major +s for a dwarf.

I'd actually recommend a Gnome over a halfling. They get 1 less potential dex, but losing that chance for 19 str is a major disadvantage, gnome are otherwise almost the same skill spread as halflings... 5 less in hide/MS, but 10 points in DI at no cost (10% per round of dispelling illusions). Their racial save bonus is about the same really, not a monster like the dwarf's is.

And if you're part fighter, there no justifiable reason beyond roleplaying to ever touch a halfling, the disadvantage for not having that early game fighter bonus str is just too much to bare.

Ogaburan

Why not also use a cap remover...?
Like this one;
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/10212/a-simple-xp-cap-remover/p1

Im pretty sure you can get past fighter lvl 8.

ZanathKariashi

Technically, as long as you reach 7, that's all you really need. While ideally 9 would be best for dual, since you'd have max HD, GM in 1 weapon (if the GM bug is ever fixed), and hitting 10 thief would be a joke, 7 is actually totally fine. You get your extra half-attack which gives 2 base attacks per round with a specialized weapon, though a F/T is a backstabber first an foremost. They just have some extra umph for if it fails (which the better thac0 progression makes that less likely), the target can't BS, or you can't hit and fade after taking out the most dangerous target.


Though in truth no...a Dualclass is horrible for BG1. You only get to enjoy your full power a short time and then the game is over, while a Multiclass would be rocking from lvl 1. And really, you don't actually need any fighter to make a strong thief. While a plain thief doesn't offer after 13, the kits have plenty advantages to give them some extra umph all the way to the end game, and can actually be some of the most satisfying to play, if you abstain from cheese and really dig into learning how to use their abilities to maximum effect.

hammernanvil

Well I always play humans, an I'm not looking for the most powerful class, I don't play mages but I want my PC to be more than just an auto attack, so that's where thief comes in, rangers are ok but their still an auto attack class, and they get no tracking, which turns me off from them in bg1,

smeagolheart

hammernanvil said:

Well I always play humans, an I'm not looking for the most powerful class, I don't play mages but I want my PC to be more than just an auto attack, so that's where thief comes in, rangers are ok but their still an auto attack class, and they get no tracking, which turns me off from them in bg1,

Get out of your comfort zone. Once you go orc you never go "bork?".. umm.. Well just try a demihuman ok?

Multiclass is better than dual class.

sandmanCCL

As has been stated by others less bluntly, multi-classing is better than dual-classing for BG1 in nearly every case.

Dual-classing craziness doesn't really start to shine as being meta-gamey enough til the level cap of BG2.

cbarchuk

I'm surprised the half-orc hasn't been mentioned as solid race for fighter/thief. I'm running one now and he is absolutely ridiculous. 19 STR, 18 DEX, and 19 CON is pretty nasty. Only disadvantage I see is not getting any initial thieving bonuses. But that hasn't been an issue at all since he's primarily my backstabber.

moopy

I mentioned a half-orc F/T about 10 posts up

Dwarf is going to win in my opinion in the end because he will still end up with 19 str and have amazing saves, but having 19 str from level 1 can be nice.

DinsdalePiranha

if you want to dual class, do it at lvl 3 - you'll still have pretty good thac0 (better than the multiclasses), okay-ish hp, *grandmastery*, alpha as fuck backstabbing, and, what's most important, you'll get your fighter levels back quickly.

currently running Shar-Teel with the same setup, and... well, let's just say she makes things very dead, extremely quickly.

Madhax

If you only play human PCs due to their aesthetics, then simply edit them using Shadowkeeper to make yourself look human. I do this all the time.

If you only play human for RP reasons, then that's trickier. Can you justify playing a half-elf?

Anyway, slightly off-topic: If you don't want to play a mage but don't want your PC to be a simple auto-attacker, how about Cleric or Druid? Single-class druids in BG1 have a very high level cap, and receive level 5 spells by the end of the game. A fighter->cleric dual class is also a powerful choice, even with a low-level dual like level 3.

cbarchuk

moopy said:

I mentioned a half-orc F/T about 10 posts up

Dwarf is going to win in my opinion in the end because he will still end up with 19 str and have amazing saves, but having 19 str from level 1 can be nice.

*Embarrassed. I run and hide*

So ultimately what's better for melee combat and backstabbing: A multi-class dwarven or half-orc fighter/thief or a dual-class fighter3/thief 9?

smeagolheart

cbarchuk said:

moopy said:

I mentioned a half-orc F/T about 10 posts up

Dwarf is going to win in my opinion in the end because he will still end up with 19 str and have amazing saves, but having 19 str from level 1 can be nice.

*Embarrassed. I run and hide*

So ultimately what's better for melee combat and backstabbing: A multi-class dwarven or half-orc fighter/thief or a dual-class fighter3/thief 9?

multi-class half-orc fighter/thief

moopy

@cbarchuk

Well, if you are going to take fighter to 3, you might as well take it to 6, because with the xp cap if you dual at 3 you end up with 3 fighter / 9 thief, and if you dual at 6 you end up with 6 fighter / 9 thief. I'd take the extra proficiency point and fighter thac0.

For melee combat if you take it to 7 fighter / 8 thief you get an extra 1/2 apr, but for backstabbing if you take thief to 9 you get 4x instead of 3x multiplier.

I still think, for all the reasons listed above, that a multi is better than a dual in BG1, and I ran a 6 berserker / 9 thief through the game. (With grand mastery in staves and the staff of striking I did take Saverok to badly injured with a hit of 90 something before he even saw me and got to move so that was cool)

DinsdalePiranha

moopy said:

@cbarchuk

Well, if you are going to take fighter to 3, you might as well take it to 6, because with the xp cap if you dual at 3 you end up with 3 fighter / 9 thief, and if you dual at 6 you end up with 6 fighter / 9 thief. I'd take the extra proficiency point and fighter thac0.

For melee combat if you take it to 7 fighter / 8 thief you get an extra 1/2 apr, but for backstabbing if you take thief to 9 you get 4x instead of 3x multiplier.

I still think, for all the reasons listed above, that a multi is better than a dual in BG1, and I ran a 6 berserker / 9 thief through the game. (With grand mastery in staves and the staff of striking I did take Saverok to badly injured with a hit of 90 something before he even saw me and got to move so that was cool)

but... why would you? the difference between fighter 3 -> thief 9 and fighter 6 -> thief 9 is...
- 1, as in one, as in *a single point* of thac0.
- a little bit of HP (depending on CON, 12 to 21)
- one extra proficiency point, which you can only spend "properly" if you level up from thief 3 to thief 7 in one go, thereby crippling your character for most of it's life

and the downside? a long, long, LOONG downtime before you get back your fighter abilites. and I do mean really fucking long. it's just... simply not worth it. dual classing at 3 means if you actually prepared for it, in one hour of playtime, you're already back in the saddle with your fighter abilities, whereas a fighter 6 -> thief won't get them back till pretty much nearing the end.

moopy

@DinsdalePiranha

Those are good points.

It didn't take me very long to get to 72,000 xp but I was soloing and knew where to look for xp. But yeah, you could get the 9k xp required for 3 fighter / 4 thief before you were done with the basilisk area alone.

If I was going to dual a fighter into a thief I'd honestly go to 7 / 8 for the extra 1/2 attack, if I wanted a thief with grand mastery and wasn't solo I'd dual at 3, but if I honestly wanted a Fighter / Thief in BG1 I'd multi.

Edit: To elaborate on that if you are soloing with a berserker as I was for the fighter class taking out sirens is easy.

So you can work your way to 32,000 for fighter 6 off sirens pretty quickly. Then dual and do the basilisk area for 7 lesser basilisks (1800 xp?) 2 greater basilisks (4500 xp?) and the mage (1200 xp?) 3 flesh golems in the cave and 2 at the mage shop at high hedge is 5 * (2000 xp) (kill them with all the poison arrows you got from the sirens), named siren that kills you instantly if you talk to her with ranged poison arrows for (5000 xp), calming down the guy in the bar is 900 xp and noober is 400xp and you need roughly 3k more xp to get Fighter 6 / Thief 7.

Then pick up party members if you want.