CLARIFICATION: Are throwing daggers, axes and slings all meant to add Strength damage?

Oxford_Guy

In the release build of BGEE, slings were the only ranged weapon that added strength damage (which was weird), but in the current patch (14th Dec) it seems throwing daggers, axes *and* slings add bonus strength damage. Is this intended and is this the way it's going to stay? I'm kind of okay with this, and am glad Darts don't get the strength bonus damage modifier, as would be OP with 3 APR, but in BG2 only throwing axes got the strength modifier, so am wondering what the situation will be for BG2EE and whether it's going to stay like this for future patches of BGEE.

BTW there has been a poll and long discussion about which throwing weapons *ought* to get the strength bonus damage modifier here:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/13405/which-ranged-weapons-in-bgee-do-you-think-ought-to-add-strength-damage/p3

This is pretty conclusive that it doesn't make sense if just slings get the strength modifier, but there is some debate about which thrown weapons *should* get the modifier, and whether slings should at all (though they did in the original BG1). There was also some debate whether the bonus damage modifier should be capped at max base damage (e.g. 4 for throwing daggers, 7 for throwing axes etc.).

It would be great to get a conclusive answer as to how whether things will change from as now (throwing daggers, axes and slings only) or stay as they are, and also whether the same rules will apply for BG2 (where currently only one magic sling get s strength bonus damage). Thanks!

Oxford_Guy

Oxford_Guy said:

In the release build of BGEE, slings were the only ranged weapon that added strength damage (which was weird), but in the current patch (14th Dec) it seems throwing daggers, axes *and* slings add bonus strength damage. Is this intended and is this the way it's going to stay? I'm kind of okay with this, and am glad Darts don't get the strength bonus damage modifier, as would be OP with 3 APR, but in BG2 only throwing axes got the strength modifier, so am wondering what the situation will be for BG2EE and whether it's going to stay like this for future patches of BGEE.

BTW there has been a poll and long discussion about which throwing weapons *ought* to get the strength bonus damage modifier here:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/13405/which-ranged-weapons-in-bgee-do-you-think-ought-to-add-strength-damage/p3

This is pretty conclusive that it doesn't make sense if just slings get the strength modifier, but there is some debate about which thrown weapons *should* get the modifier, and whether slings should at all (though they did in the original BG1). There was also some debate whether the bonus damage modifier should be capped at max base damage (e.g. 4 for throwing daggers, 7 for throwing axes etc.).

It would be great to get a conclusive answer as to how whether things will change from as now (throwing daggers, axes and slings only) or stay as they are, and also whether the same rules will apply for BG2 (where currently only one magic sling get s strength bonus damage). Thanks!

EDIT: BTW currently a character with 19 Str (and no other modifiers) and one proficiency point does the following base damage with these hurled weapons:

Throwing Dagger: 8-11 damage with 2 APR
Throwing Axe: 9-14 damage with 1 APR
Sling: 9-12 damage with 1 APR

Of course there is a downside with non-magical non-returning throwing daggers and axes, they're heavy (especially axes) and also require more inventory management, as can't be put in a quiver. Also in BGEE there are no magical throwing daggers, and only limited magical throwing axes

Pantalion

Oxford_Guy said:

EDIT: BTW currently a character with 19 Str (and no other modifiers) and one proficiency point does the following base damage with these hurled weapons:

Throwing Dagger: 8-11 damage with 2 APR
Throwing Axe: 9-14 damage with 1 APR
Sling: 9-12 damage with 1 APR

Of course there is a downside with non-magical non-returning throwing daggers and axes, they're heavy (especially axes) and also require more inventory management, as can't be put in a quiver. Also in BGEE there are no magical throwing daggers, and only limited magical throwing axes

The advantage of Slings in BG:EE (not necessarily something that carries over to BGII) is the extra Enhancement bonus - not just that there aren't any magic throwing daggers; even with the +2 Axe, the Sling is getting +2 Enhanced ammo and a +3 from the sling itself.

From there it's 11-16 +2 Axe, 8-11 x 2 +0 Daggers, and 14-17 +3 Sling with +2 Bullets, still better for knives - if you hit - but very narrowly so.

When you add in the extra attacks from specialisation and level however, the dynamic changes considerably. With specialisation you get +2 per hit and 1/2 an attack, and Fighter level 7 gives 2 APR with the Axe and Sling, 3 APR with the daggers.

This makes daggers 10-13 x 3 (so 30-39), the axe is 13-18 x 2 (26-36), and the Sling is 16-19 x 2 (32-38).

So for those who suck at fight in BG:EE, Daggers are the best; for Fighter classes, Slings squeeze past on average damage, and for only requiring two attack rolls (though daggers are close, and better for disruption).

In BG II however, even if you bring in +4 bullets and a +4 sling (assuming they use the same engine), against the Firetooth you're looking at 42-51 versus 38-44, making Dagger proficiency a good long-term investment for non-Clerics looking for the Firetooth and Slings a definite second best (though still superior to bows at that point).

I'd most appreciate knowing the answer to this question as well, and what's planned Re: Slings for BGII:EE, since the strength bonus is quite a big deal.

Oxford_Guy

Pantalion said:

Oxford_Guy said:

EDIT: BTW currently a character with 19 Str (and no other modifiers) and one proficiency point does the following base damage with these hurled weapons:

Throwing Dagger: 8-11 damage with 2 APR
Throwing Axe: 9-14 damage with 1 APR
Sling: 9-12 damage with 1 APR

Of course there is a downside with non-magical non-returning throwing daggers and axes, they're heavy (especially axes) and also require more inventory management, as can't be put in a quiver. Also in BGEE there are no magical throwing daggers, and only limited magical throwing axes

The advantage of Slings in BG:EE (not necessarily something that carries over to BGII) is the extra Enhancement bonus - not just that there aren't any magic throwing daggers; even with the +2 Axe, the Sling is getting +2 Enhanced ammo and a +3 from the sling itself.

From there it's 11-16 +2 Axe, 8-11 x 2 +0 Daggers, and 14-17 +3 Sling with +2 Bullets, still better for knives - if you hit - but very narrowly so.

When you add in the extra attacks from specialisation and level however, the dynamic changes considerably. With specialisation you get +2 per hit and 1/2 an attack, and Fighter level 7 gives 2 APR with the Axe and Sling, 3 APR with the daggers.

This makes daggers 10-13 x 3 (so 30-39), the axe is 13-18 x 2 (26-36), and the Sling is 16-19 x 2 (32-38).

So for those who suck at fight in BG:EE, Daggers are the best; for Fighter classes, Slings squeeze past on average damage, and for only requiring two attack rolls (though daggers are close, and better for disruption).

In BG II however, even if you bring in +4 bullets and a +4 sling (assuming they use the same engine), against the Firetooth you're looking at 42-51 versus 38-44, making Dagger proficiency a good long-term investment for non-Clerics looking for the Firetooth and Slings a definite second best (though still superior to bows at that point).

Though in BG2 vanilla *only* throwing axes get the strength bonus (and one magic sling), so until we get confirmation, it could be risky investing in daggers or even slings for BG2EE...