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Who actually takes Nalia?

13

Comments

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @PlasticGolem. Jan is a viable thief. Sure from raw Thief perspective, Yoshimo is better, but I would list Jan as the best thief in the game because he doesn't die. And certainly Jan is worlds better than Nalia on both the thief and wizard fronts.

    At the end of the day, Nalia isn't a great mage because she isn't a pure mage. She isn't a great thief because there are MUCH better choices (Imoen, Yoshimo, Jan). And she really doesn't tie into any important plot points. So she is pretty much mediocre choice at best. And there are much better options.

    Play with her in your party simply to add flavor if you want, but I think the OP is looking for a compelling reason to use her and there really isn't one that I can see.

  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 946
    Illusionist is probably one of the best spell schools for all multiclass mages, especially thieves. Mislead backstabs are possibly too abusive.

  • lDanielHolmlDanielHolm Member Posts: 225
    Zutti said:


    At the end of the day, Nalia isn't a great mage because she isn't a pure mage.

    This argument holds absolutely no merit. Nalia is thief level 4. That's a whopping 5000 XP in thief levels. There is essentially zero difference between Nalia's mage level and that of a pure mage. She does, however, have access to limited thief skills, thief equipment, shortbows, etc.
    To add to that, she isn't a specialist, thus she can learn all spells; she's a fine mage.

    SCARY_WIZARD[Deleted User]
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    Nalia only has a max mage level of 31 by the xp cap. My pure class mage can make it all the way to level 31...

    Wait never mind.

    She has all the advantages of a pure mage + awesome ring + shortbows / elven chain / other thief equipment + minor thief skills + awesome ring.

    How is this a question.

    Comparing her to Imoen. Same Dex, same Int, same Con, Nalia has 2 less wisdom and 3 less charisma, but 5 more strength, but you don't have to wait till Spellhold to get her back.

    JaxsbudgieSCARY_WIZARDThe_New_RomanceKidCarnival
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 946
    moopy said:


    Comparing her to Imoen. Same Dex, same Int, same Con, Nalia has 2 less wisdom and 3 less charisma, but 5 more strength, but you don't have to wait till Spellhold to get her back.

    TBH, that strength is more valuable, if not for bag space room alone.

    JaxsbudgieSCARY_WIZARDmoopy
  • PlasticGolemPlasticGolem Member Posts: 98

    @PlasticGolem. Jan is a viable thief. Sure from raw Thief perspective, Yoshimo is better, but I would list Jan as the best thief in the game because he doesn't die. And certainly Jan is worlds better than Nalia on both the thief and wizard fronts.

    Jan isn't really a thief; he's an illusionist/thief. He satisfies the in-game requirement that you have a lock-picker and trap-remover, but he won't really become a very versatile thief: he gains levels slowly enough that you'll need to pick and choose which thief aspects you develop. By the end of SoA, he won't have enough experience to be a good general-purpose, flexible thief.

    Baldur's Gate gives you lots of thieves to work with. In Baldur's Gate 2, there is one one NPC of each of the four basic classes who can be developed to the full potential of that class: Edwin, Korgan, Viconia and Yoshimo. But you don't get to keep Yoshimo.

    One common critique is that if you want a really interesting thief that can be fully developed, you have to play one yourself, in spite of the fact that thief is one of the most basic D&D character classes.
    At the end of the day, Nalia isn't a great mage because she isn't a pure mage. She isn't a great thief because there are MUCH better choices (Imoen, Yoshimo, Jan). And she really doesn't tie into any important plot points. So she is pretty much mediocre choice at best. And there are much better options.
    That's how I generally feel about her: I'd like to have her because she's an interesting character, but balance-wise, she is redundant and ends up crowding out characters who make more sense plot and ability-wise. This is especially true if you try to keep your party below the 6 character limit.

  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660
    edited January 2013


    Baldur's Gate gives you lots of thieves to work with. In Baldur's Gate 2, there is one one NPC of each of the four basic classes who can be developed to the full potential of that class: Edwin, Korgan, Viconia and Yoshimo. But you don't get to keep Yoshimo.


    Yeah, and as I've said a few times, almost all of the pure classes (that you get to keep) are evil.

  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 946
    @PlasticGolem
    I guess Mazzy, Keldorn, Valygar, Minsc, Haer'dalis, and Cernd are evil?


    Besides which, most of the dual classed characters practically are single classed clerics or mages with slight benefits and no hinderance to their level capacity. Okay so Anomen will reach 39 instead of 40... it's worth the extra 1/2 attack per round and ability to get GM.

    The_New_Romance
  • TinterTinter Member Posts: 152
    Nalia is a perfectly fine mage. Sure, Edwin is better than her, but Edwin is better than my PC mage, this doesn't make either of them useless.

    I mean, if you don't like or want to take her then thats fine but by late BG2 merely by being an arcane caster she is probably more powerful than most other characters in the game. Taking Aerie, Nalia and Imoen all at the same time won't hurt your party one bit so its not like theres a crisis of repeats here.

  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660
    @Dazzu Was that meant for me?

    Mazzy, fine. Minsc: Debatable. Technically pure, but that low wis...

    Keldorn: Kit. Valygar: Kit. Haer'dalis: Kit. Cernd: Kit.

  • LoremasterLoremaster Member Posts: 203
    Nalia serves well as a primary mage in a good aligned party. Her spellcasting isn’t hampered by being a specialized wizard or a multiclass one. I don’t compare her to Imoen as there are more to a character than class, level and efficiency in combat. Sure, Immo is the better thief but Nalia comes with quests and a story of her own, and in a modded game you can romance her. Further, I have a hard time imagine Imoen’s personality to that of a mage and play with a mod that keeps her as pure thief.

  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    @Loremaster

    Though technically isn't there a mod that also lets you romance Imoen...

    ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww incest

    rdarken
  • LoremasterLoremaster Member Posts: 203
    Yeah, there is, but such mod doesn't appeal to me.

  • PlasticGolemPlasticGolem Member Posts: 98
    Dazzu said:

    @PlasticGolem
    I guess Mazzy, Keldorn, Valygar, Minsc, Haer'dalis, and Cernd are evil?

    I don't quite understand why you are asking me this question.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    edited January 2013


    Jan isn't really a thief; he's an illusionist/thief. He satisfies the in-game requirement that you have a lock-picker and trap-remover, but he won't really become a very versatile thief: he gains levels slowly enough that you'll need to pick and choose which thief aspects you develop. By the end of SoA, he won't have enough experience to be a good general-purpose, flexible thief.

    Jan is absolutely a thief. Being an Illusionist/thief makes him no less viable as a thief. Certainly when you compare him to Imoen or Nalia, he is 10X the thief they are. I did qualify him as not as good as Yoshimo, but since you lose Yoshimo half way through SoA, I'd personally rather have a lower level thief than an unrecoverable dead one.

    As far as versatility, I admit that in thief skills, he will have to focus. But so what? Skimp on his hide in shadows and move silently and have him stock invisibility as his second level spells. Or improved invisibility. He still makes an excellent scout. And he can disarm traps without being seen which is something Yoshimo can't do. And let's see Yoshimo cast a well timed Magic Missile or Haste spell without a wand.
    Zutti said:


    At the end of the day, Nalia isn't a great mage because she isn't a pure mage.

    This argument holds absolutely no merit. Nalia is thief level 4. That's a whopping 5000 XP in thief levels. There is essentially zero difference between Nalia's mage level and that of a pure mage. She does, however, have access to limited thief skills, thief equipment, shortbows, etc.
    It has merit. last time I checked the party of 6 had to get 6X that same 5k in order for one of it's members to overcome the difference. Which means that, assuming she has the exact same experience as your straight wizard at the time she joins, and she doesn't die and miss out on XP, the party has to get 30 grand experience for her to remain the same level. And my experience is that the characters experience relative to the protagonist is only relative and can vary by almost a level depending on when you pick her up. Since Imoen starts out with you, the relative differential between her and the rest of the party is nominal. Not so with the other joiners.

  • lDanielHolmlDanielHolm Member Posts: 225
    30k experience is really nothing by BG2, especially when spread out over 6 members. You get 30k XP from many quests, and that's per character.

    Also, unless my memory is faulty, Imoen stays at the level she was at the beginning of the game until you pick her up again after Spellhold. Whatever advantage she may have had for starting out with CHARNAME is utterly lost.

  • LoremasterLoremaster Member Posts: 203
    edited January 2013

    Also, unless my memory is faulty, Imoen stays at the level she was at the beginning of the game until you pick her up again after Spellhold. Whatever advantage she may have had for starting out with CHARNAME is utterly lost.


    No, if I remember correctly, she is advanced to lvl 13 when you pick her up again. But this is off topic.

  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 946
    edited January 2013
    I mention those characters because you said that all the 'pure' single class characters are evil or Yoshimo... I simply brought up a counter-arguement.

    Also, Yoshi and Korgan are kitted and arguably so is Edwin.

  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    With Imoen, I normally write down all her spells at the beginning of the game then carry around an extra scroll case with all the spells I want her to scribe when I've gotten her back. If you don't do that, Imoen will have sub-par spell selection compared to every other mage you have in party.

    I've never seen Imoen as anything more than a mediocre thief. I always have a PC or Jan to handle thiefing in the game. Imoen's extra thief levels are nice, but both Imoen and Nalia can use bows and both fail at picking locks and disarming traps.

  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938



    Zutti said:


    At the end of the day, Nalia isn't a great mage because she isn't a pure mage.

    This argument holds absolutely no merit. Nalia is thief level 4. That's a whopping 5000 XP in thief levels. There is essentially zero difference between Nalia's mage level and that of a pure mage. She does, however, have access to limited thief skills, thief equipment, shortbows, etc.
    It has merit. last time I checked the party of 6 had to get 6X that same 5k in order for one of it's members to overcome the difference. Which means that, assuming she has the exact same experience as your straight wizard at the time she joins, and she doesn't die and miss out on XP, the party has to get 30 grand experience for her to remain the same level. And my experience is that the characters experience relative to the protagonist is only relative and can vary by almost a level depending on when you pick her up. Since Imoen starts out with you, the relative differential between her and the rest of the party is nominal. Not so with the other joiners.
    Is this serious or trolling? By this logic Imoen sucks compared to Nalia because she starts with 95,000 in mage xp and if you pick Nalia up at level 9 she will start with 161,000 xp in mage experience.

    Assuming you only take 4 characters out of the 5 you could get in Irenicus' dungeon and the roughly 250,000 possible xp in the dungeon giving each of those characters 62,500 xp putting her at 157,500 mage xp by the time you can go get Nalia at 161,000 xp.

    Therefore, according to your logic, Nalia > Imoen.

    Jaxsbudgie
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,603
    Everyone takes Nalia. She's a good thief and so-so mage.




    But then she gives away MY hard earned coins to some worthless beggars. That is when she gets booted and chunked.

  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 946
    Those 5 precious coins! We'll never reach Spellhold without em!
    moopy said:




    Zutti said:


    At the end of the day, Nalia isn't a great mage because she isn't a pure mage.

    This argument holds absolutely no merit. Nalia is thief level 4. That's a whopping 5000 XP in thief levels. There is essentially zero difference between Nalia's mage level and that of a pure mage. She does, however, have access to limited thief skills, thief equipment, shortbows, etc.
    It has merit. last time I checked the party of 6 had to get 6X that same 5k in order for one of it's members to overcome the difference. Which means that, assuming she has the exact same experience as your straight wizard at the time she joins, and she doesn't die and miss out on XP, the party has to get 30 grand experience for her to remain the same level. And my experience is that the characters experience relative to the protagonist is only relative and can vary by almost a level depending on when you pick her up. Since Imoen starts out with you, the relative differential between her and the rest of the party is nominal. Not so with the other joiners.
    Is this serious or trolling? By this logic Imoen sucks compared to Nalia because she starts with 95,000 in mage xp and if you pick Nalia up at level 9 she will start with 161,000 xp in mage experience.

    Assuming you only take 4 characters out of the 5 you could get in Irenicus' dungeon and the roughly 250,000 possible xp in the dungeon giving each of those characters 62,500 xp putting her at 157,500 mage xp by the time you can go get Nalia at 161,000 xp.

    Therefore, according to your logic, Nalia > Imoen.
    Incidently, almost ALL the npcs start with 161k exp... so Nalia with her 161k is... far behind??

  • RannRann Member Posts: 167
    I always take Nalia -- she makes a fine mage (I never use her for thief, since she's pretty useless there -- Yoshimo fills that role until I get Imoen back), her side-quests are good but not distracting, and I'm partial to mages anyway -- by the end of the game, if I'm playing a tank for CHARNAME, I often have Imoen, Nalia, and Aerie all in the party, and with the three of them stuffed to the gills with Breach, Pierce Magic, etc., it's laughable how quickly enemy mages, liches, and so on get defeated.

  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    *SIGH* only if she was a sorcerer...

  • rdarkenrdarken Member Posts: 660
    Could they potentially change Nalia to Sorceror in BG2:EE? Or would that violate the contracts?

  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    edited January 2013
    rdarken said:

    Could they potentially change Nalia to Sorceror in BG2:EE? Or would that violate the contracts?

    That would violate contract... But there's already a mod that can change any joinable BG2 NPCs to any class... Any by looking at the mod I recon it should be compatible with BG2EE... I actually ended up converting Imoen to sorcerer (since I like Anyson Hannigan more than Drew Barrymore), Aerie to Wild Mage/Cleric (I LOL'ed when she summoned pack of wolves after casting cure medium wounds)... Perhaps changing NAlia to thief/wild Mage might bring her more interest...

  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    leeho730 said:

    Perhaps changing NAlia to thief/wild Mage might bring her more interest...

    Anything that gives Nalia an extra spellcasting slot without any restrictions (aside from the occasional random explosion) is a-ok with me!

    Seriously though, I don't understand why so many people hate her. As many have pointed out already, she's a good mage with just enough thief skills to use shortbows and wear armor when she needs to. She comes with a very nice ring and quest that gives a ton of experience. Not to mention that, if your Charname is a fighter, you get to take over her keep, which opens up a bunch of other side quests and generates money for you.

    Personality-wise, I can see why some would find her annoying, but I can't seem to hate her for it. She may be a bit self-righteous, but I never doubted for a second that her intentions were good. Is it really so bad to say that you want to dedicate your life to helping the "less-fortunate"? Perhaps she could find a better way of going about it, or toughen up a little, but as far as I've seen, her heart was always in the right place, and that's perfectly all right with me. Not the best choice for an evil party, but she fits right into a good party easy. Though, this is all just my opinion, so have at you. :P

    Son_of_Imoen
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    This is off subject kind of but...

    Shadows of Amn would have been a much better story if they had killed Imoen. No dealing with not having her for half the game and getting her back. You'd be fighting through the game to get her back just to have it snatched away from you at the last moment, especially if you ended up watching her die. It would also make killing Irenicus a lot more satisfying.

    DazzurdarkenJaxsbudgiemlnevese
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