What kind of saving throw do you have to make with Ixil's Spike +6 For Pinned for 3 Rounds" Effect?

Debaser

I'm trying to make a mean average damage comparison chart for the best weapons in each class. But I can't seem to find documentation on what kind of save you have to make to avoid being pinned down. Obviously this is a BG2 weapon. But Spears are kind of under-appreciated and this is a fantastic weapon.

valky

save vs Death/Poison

mjs

i made a spearer once. finished up using ixil's spike. it never seemed to pin as much i'd have liked, but still really really good (it was a wizard slayer)

Debaser

@Valky THANK YOU! @mjs - I'm finding that the Impaler +3 is by all accounts a more constant weapon with damage.

I'm using this acronym for my chart: Mean (M), Average (A), Damage (DMG)

The Impaler +3 - MADMG 16.5 (10 of which is piercing)

Spear of Withering +4 - MADMG 11.5 (4 of which is poison damage)

Ixill's Spike +6 - MADMG 7.5 + 8.5 once per round in the event of a failed save. (This is impossible to calculate as an average against the changing variable of a saving throw, BUT...it's it's very good when it proc's)

All in all Ixill's spike does less damage on average than the Impaler or the Spear of Withering per attack. But when it proc's it's probably somewhere between the two in terms of damage. The Impaler has a bonus to piercing damage which is the most common for enemies to have bonuses against...and it's a +3, so it won't hurt Kangaxx or enemies of his ilk...but it's a VERY effective weapon otherwise.

I'm finding Staff of the Ram, Carsomyr, Gram the Sword of Grief, etc to be better picks...
I'm calculating halberds now.

Debaser

@Valky @mjs does the proc STACK? That would really bump up it's damage output.

mjs

that wizard slayer was 2handed, staffs and spears and a pip or two in bows. staffs are immense because of the sheer variety available even from an early stage. the elemental staffs are great, the golem destroyer is unbelievably useful, the staff of striking is way powerful, if only rod of terror and the one of ruby ray of reversal were less limited (one eventually kills you and the other only has one charge i think?)

and yeah you finish off the with the staff of the ram+boots of speeds/IH and you basically slap them to one side of the room, chase after them and slap them to other side again!

Debaser

@mjs - here's a taste of what I'm working on...but it's only for the best weapons. I'm not making a chart for gear that's not at the top of the food chain. (+3 to +6 weapons) Halberds actually have more top end weapons in terms of damaging output...but there are a number of staves and a few Two-Handed Swords not yet included.

I will do one handed cross reference next...and then put together a chart for calculating mean average damage vs your chosen weapon proficiencies quickly. After that, I might approach someone to make a calculator for the game to host on a web page.

Staff of the Ram kills Carsomyr under most circumstances though...and Ravager potentially outdamages everything when it's proc'd...UNLESS we can verify if Ixill's spike stacks with it's proc damage Vs. Save per hit. That might change things up.


Staves:

Staff of the Ram +6 - 15.5 MADMG + 2.5 MA BONUS PIERCING DMG = 18 MADMG


Two Handed Swords:

Gram the Sword of Grief +5 - 11.8 MADMG + ability to lower enemy level by 1Hit Dice per hit.


Carsomyr +6 - 12.5-18.5 MADMG (Vs Chaotic Evil)


Halberds:

Dragons Bane +3 - 8.5 MADMG + 6 against Dragons (14.5)

Blackmist +4 - 9.5 MADMG

Dragon's Breath +4 - 10 MADMG (5 of which are each one of each type of savable damage, Poison, Fire, Electrical, Ice, & Acid)

Halberd +4 (The Wave) - 15% Chance (No Save) to drain water from victim, 2.25 MA BONUS DMG Per Swing. 7.5 MADMG, 9.75 MADMG with Proc engaged.

Ravaver +6 - 11.5 MADMG + 10.5 poison DMG if opponent fails save. 22 MADMG with Poison damage TOTAL if an opponent fails a save.

1 in 10 swings will result in vorpal decapitation (instant death, no save for lesser creatures), 10% Chance.


Spears:

The Impaler +3, 16.5 MADMG (10 of which is piercing)

Spear of Withering +4, 11.5 MADMG (4 of which is poison damage)

Ixil's Spike +6 - 5-10 DMG, +THAC0, Free Action, Target must save or be pinned for 3 rounds via "sleep" taking 6-11 DMG per round for three rounds while asleep.

7.5 MADMG + 8.5 MA BONUS DMG PER ROUND IF PROC IS ENGAGED. (STACKABLE! IN THEORY EVEYY HIT PER ROUND COULD PROC! Causing it to multiply out, VERY COOL!)

valky

Good question about the procc stacking...I guess at least the pin (sleep) effect will be extended - wouldn't make sense otherwise. But am not sure how the extra damage will be calculated. In near inf. it's listed as bypassing piercing damage, so not really poison. I assume it just adds up for each round.

Could be tested though, if you cheat yourself the weapon and punish some of your NPC, maybe even raising their saving throws.

mjs

sounds like a piece of work, will make interesting reading. how will instakills rate, like the vorpal sword etc?

Debaser

@valky would you be interested in testing if the procs stack possibly sometime this weekend? I could cheat and do it...but I'm kind of busy figuring out a layout with my chart for weapons and calculations and I've got work and school this weekend. =/ You've been really helpful so far too. I appreciate it.

@mjs Insta-kills will be factored in as special abilities with mean averages on rate of proc! So...you'll see just how many swings it will take to get one...and depending on your weapon proficiencies and class, be able to calculate how many per round, or how many rounds it would take to get one!

Debaser

@Valky, if it doesn't stack but you come to a point where you will cause a proc during a round due to the amount of attacks you can have. 7/2 rounds for a 13th Level+ Fighter with Grandmastery in Spears for instance should cause a proc statistically against most creatures with a death / poison save...then you can factor in the damage as a per round mean average bonus under most conditions by ADDING it to the mean of whatever you do when all your attacks per round are factored.

But it still won't out damage the impaler, just put creatures to sleep.

valky

hmm, both effects stack, or better: the damage is counted differently - each damage lasts 3 rounds and gets a separate damage roll. Keldorn didn't know what happened to him...raised his saves to 20, so it was easier to get proccs.

Most creatures don't have such low (or high~ depending on the view) saving throws anyway, so the weapon seems to be quite awesome.

edit: checked some random ToB creatures, quite a few have very low STthrows. But you'll usually lower them by magic at this point, everything else dies fast anyway...

Debaser

@valky THAT is awesome! If it's separate as you say, but each fail to save stacks than that will get dangerous VERY fast. you have my thanks my friend.

And it justifies spears as a main weapon class...otherwise Impaler really would have been better than the top tier weapon. (Though, I still think Impaler is EXTREMELY strong for what it is and when you get it)

Spears become viable then with two extremely powerful weapons. And the Spear of Withering which is a good stop gap for creatures who need a +4 weapon until you get Ixill's Spike.