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what are the basic rules to dualclassing a npc?

For example would Xan be able to dual class to thief with a dex tome?

where can i find the requisites to dual a char?

Comments

  • DeucetipherDeucetipher Member Posts: 521
    Xan cannot dual class as only humans can dual class. In order to DC, a character must have at least 15 in their first class' primary stat, and must have at least a 17 in the class' primary stat they wish to dual class into. For example, a human fighter needs both 15 strength and 17 intelligence in order to DC to mage. As an aside, Druids have two primary stats, wisdom and charisma, so dualing to Druid is particularly onerous. Oh, and there are three wis tomes, so you can consider that in character creation.
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited January 2013
    In addition at what @Deucetipher said, consider also that some classes (like Paladins, Bards or Monks) cannot dual.

    Edit: Also you can dual kits, but not dual into one, e.g. a Kensai can dual to Thief, but a Thief or a Bounty Hunter cannot dual to Kensai (but they can dual to Fighter).
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    iirc, there are only 6 NPCs you can dual, and most of 'em aren't worth it. here it goes:
    Imoen, thief -> mage: popular one, not bad, but BG1 is drowning in good thieves, and you can't dual to a specialist mage
    Shar-Teel, fighter -> thief: aka the coolest one. dual at lvl 3, and you'll get one mean backstabbing machine with next to no downtime
    Safana, thief -> mage, requires int tome: same as Imoen, except you need to spend your int tome on her
    Xzar, necromancer -> cleric, requires wis tome: another popular-ish one, fits him like... well, not at all.
    Dynaheir, invoker -> cleric, requires TWO wis tomes: same as the Xzar one, except more convoluted.
    Branwen, cleric -> thief, requires dex tome: why, god, why? WHY? why would anyone do this?
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    When dualing Safana to Mage, Branwen to Thief, and Xzar to Thief the tomes you need aren't available until relatively late in the game. (Int tome is in Candlekeep catacombs and Dex tome is in the Thieves' guild in BG city.) I think you can still get to one level higher in the new class than the original class, but you won't have long to enjoy both sets of class skills for them.

    In order to get two Wis tomes relatively early you have to travel to Durlag's (the tower itself, not dungeon). But the rest of Durlag's is very difficult to complete even with the party at level 5. So if you want to dual quickly you'll have to break up the Durlag's experience (do above ground early, return later for below ground).

    Imoen and Shar-Teel require no tomes at all.
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    @Lemernis

    actually the INT tome is in Baldur's Gate North section, still quite late though.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    @Erg Oops, right, Ramazith's tower.
  • lDanielHolmlDanielHolm Member Posts: 225
    edited January 2013
    Note that Xzar can also dual-class to a Thief with the DEX tome.

    Shar-Teel is by far the most flexible; Fighter supplements Thief very well, at many different levels, and she can fill many different roles. Imoen is by far the most powerful, becoming easily the second-best NPC Mage in the game after Edwin--who can shoot arrows when she's not slinging spells. Her Int score equals all the other Mages in the game with the exception of Edwin, and Thief levels up so fast you could easily get her all the way to 6 while still reaching Mage 9. I like to pick up Shar-Teel to act as my Thief while Imoen's regaining her skills.

    The rest aren't really worth considering. Xzar becomes a half-way decent Cleric/Mage, and you can get the WIS tome relatively early, but he loses out on the best Mage spells, and dualling him into a Thief seems... very dumb (there are tons of Thieves in BG1, and Mage does not bring anything especially compelling to the mix that you can't have with a separate caster anyway).

    Branwen really should stay a Cleric for the same reason, Dynaheir costs too much to turn into a Cleric at 2 WIS tomes (on top of the problems we already considered with Xzar), and Safana dualled to Mage comes far too late to regain her Thief skills for any significant period of time... and Imoen does it better and faster, anyway.
  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    About dual classing Imoen: I'm planning on dualing her to mage at thief level 6, but I don't want my party to be lacking thieving skills and I wouldn't want to get another thief when she's regaining the skills. So is it possible to get her to 80k experience as a level 6 thief and then dual her? In theory she should immediately level up to 7 as a mage if that is possible (20k to lvl 6 thief and 60k to lvl 7 mage). That would be kind of cheesy though.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited January 2013
    It's interesting to note that there are enough tomes available to dual-class all of them.

    So as not to derail this thread, I started a separate thread about dual-classing them all in the same game:

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/14105/npc-dual-class-challenge
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited January 2013
    Xzar is a necromancer....dualing into a cleric is a match made in hell since he can cast a lot more animate dead then a mage can that way (2 at lvl cap, and you have to find a scroll of it) vs having some mages spells, and a bunch of awesome touch necromantic spells (and a decent thac0 to actually make use of them) and the ability to cast animate dead at lvl 5 cleric (and get a BUNCH more castings, 5 think, if memory serves), vs lvl 9 mage.
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited January 2013
    @Wilbur

    That will not work.

    When you dual, you lose the extra points, i.e. in your example you will lose the 60k and you'll have to regain that XP a second time.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318

    Xzar is a necromancer....dualing into a cleric is a match made in hell since he can cast a lot more animate dead then a mage can that way (2 at lvl cap, and you have to find a scroll of it) vs having some mages spells, and a bunch of awesome touch necromantic spells (and a decent thac0 to actually make use of them) and the ability to cast animate dead at lvl 5 cleric (and get a BUNCH more castings, 5 think, if memory serves), vs lvl 9 mage.

    Unfortunately, you'd have to get him to Necromancer level... what is it? 10?... in order to get Animate Dead as a mage. So, sadly, I don't think he could get those mage skills back before the game ends, dualing at Necromancer 10...

    Necromancer/Cleric is a pretty neat choice for a PC through the entire saga, though. The ToB engine limits the number of summoned creatures to five (six? something like that). But with such a PC you could certainly have skeletons on the battlefield just about all the time.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited January 2013
    Mages get 5th level spells (i.e. animate dead and cloudkill) at 9 (highest possible in BG1), sorcerers get 5th level spells at 10.

    But animate dead is only a 3rd level spell for a cleric.

    You could easily dual him at necro 6 (40k xp), and still become 8 cleric (110k, total 150k of 161k). Which would give him 4/3/3 mage and 5/5/4/2 as cleric.

    Aka, 2 more animate dead then if he remained a pure mage + the ability to cast haste/bless/chant from sanctuary without breaking the invisibility (that since he's a necromancer can't cast those kinds of spells for arcane) on his army of skeletons, + several other nasty spells, such as doom, command, inflict spells, and the ability to rebuke/command undead.
    Post edited by ZanathKariashi on
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    One requirement for dual classing I didn't see mentioned is the only dual class options available are ones that have a legit multiclass so no ranger/thief or ranger/druid or thief/druid etc..

    I played quite a few dual class characters in the original but I almost always started out with a very small party - maybe just PC and Imoen or possible adding one more NPC depending on what class the PC was - then we avoided the main quest and went off exploring to build up levels. Once that was done I used to go to the Pirate cave and attempt to rest grabbing quick experience from the flesh golems that would spawn until we leveled up enough to get the first class back (sadly this has been nerfed in BG:EE) then went off and grabbed my party and carried on.

    If you try to play "normally" you usually end up not getting your first class back until pretty late in the game.

    Alternately I played a couple characters like a fight/druid dual that stayed a fighter through all of BG1 and dualed in BG2 - once again I would drop the party size down to 2 or 3 once I dualed to ramp up experience until getting the first class back.

    The real downside to dual classing is you usually don't have a "complete" character until late in the game and there is often a fairly long time in mid game when you are fairly (or completely) weak and have to let the party more or less "carry you".
  • jimkayjimkay Member Posts: 10
    In terms of dual class rules, you also have to be at least level 2 before you change classes.
  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    Erg said:

    @Wilbur

    That will not work.

    When you dual, you lose the extra points, i.e. in your example you will lose the 60k and you'll have to regain that XP a second time.

    Ok, thanks for the info. I think I will pick up Coran after all. I think a fighter/thief is more fun than a pure tank.

  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    @Wilbur: also, he's the best archer in the game, with several "illegal" things. (20 dex, 3* in bows)

    just make sure to use a few potions of perception/mind focusing (or better yet: shadowkeeper) until you level him up a few times, because for some messed up reason, he only has points in open locks and *hiding*, despite being archery focused otherwise. (or pick up Safana until he gets his find traps up)
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803

    @Wilbur: also, he's the best archer in the game, with several "illegal" things. (20 dex, 3* in bows)

    just make sure to use a few potions of perception/mind focusing (or better yet: shadowkeeper) until you level him up a few times, because for some messed up reason, he only has points in open locks and *hiding*, despite being archery focused otherwise. (or pick up Safana until he gets his find traps up)

    Best choice remains to have a dualed Imoen Thief/mage (boost trap finding to 100) AND Coran for the archer / open locks / Hiding skills.

    You then are free to use the 4 remaining skills at your leisure :-)

  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    edited January 2013

    @Wilbur: also, he's the best archer in the game, with several "illegal" things. (20 dex, 3* in bows)

    just make sure to use a few potions of perception/mind focusing (or better yet: shadowkeeper) until you level him up a few times, because for some messed up reason, he only has points in open locks and *hiding*, despite being archery focused otherwise. (or pick up Safana until he gets his find traps up)

    Best choice remains to have a dualed Imoen Thief/mage (boost trap finding to 100) AND Coran for the archer / open locks / Hiding skills.

    You then are free to use the 4 remaining skills at your leisure :-)
    if you get the guy at lvl 3 (which isn't all that hard), you can easily level him up "properly" - he starts with 70 open locks and 20 find traps, so by level 5 (20k xp) his find traps skill is quite alright... by the end, he can have over 100 in both, and I don't think there's even a lock/trap in the game that requires a skill over 70 or so.

    but yeah, using Imoen also works, just mind the dual downtime.
    Post edited by DinsdalePiranha on
  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    edited January 2013
    Additional rule for BP:
    The total XP cap is 600k.

    So XP(1st class) + XP(2nd class) cannot go over 600K.

    Some recommendations:
    Fighter 9 -> Mage 10
    Fighter 9 -> Thief 10
    Fighter 8 -> Cleric 10
    Ranger 8 -> Cleric 10

    Shame Fighter cannot dual class to Druid, otherwise Fighter 9 -> Druid 11 would have been possible...
    Post edited by leeho730 on
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    leeho730 said:



    Shame Fighter cannot dual class to Druid, otherwise Fighter 9 -> Druid 11 would have been possible...

    Fighter CAN dual class to druid - it takes a really good roll - he needs min 15 str 17 wis AND 17 cha and has to be true neutral - play through BG1 as fighter and dual to druid in BG2 - druid levels come very quick in BG2 especially if you drop party size while leveling druid so you get most of SoA and all of TOB as dualed fighter/druid

  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    Wanderon said:

    leeho730 said:



    Shame Fighter cannot dual class to Druid, otherwise Fighter 9 -> Druid 11 would have been possible...

    Fighter CAN dual class to druid - it takes a really good roll - he needs min 15 str 17 wis AND 17 cha and has to be true neutral - play through BG1 as fighter and dual to druid in BG2 - druid levels come very quick in BG2 especially if you drop party size while leveling druid so you get most of SoA and all of TOB as dualed fighter/druid

    Actually I did it few years ago: a Berserker/Druid, dual wielding clubs. It has been one of my strongest PCs.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    "What are the basic rules to dual-classing a NPC?"
    "Xzar is a badass."
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