Choosing a MC..

kissoff

I intend of creating a character to play through the whole EE series. All my previous runs (years ago) were where on the good, Neutral Good side, I want to make a Neutral Evil/Lawful Neutral Group with the following NPCs:

Imoen (just for plot's sake)
Dorn
Kagain
Edwin
Viconia

First of all, what do you think about this group? Am I missing something?
Then, what would be the best class to play? I am between Archer (though I read it's not as good in BG2 onwards) and Fighter/Wizard Multi-class.

Any other suggestions are welcome (but I am def not going to play cleric, druid or monk).

szb

My problem with archer is that its a one trick pony. All you are good at is shooting arrows and that gets boring for me quickly.

Figher/Mage is strong but besides Kagain and Dorn you don't realy need more melee muscle and Edwin is already the best mage around.

How about assassin? While still not that flexible, backstabbing is lot more fun, you can get awesome traps later and RP wise it works great with the story. (god of Murder and all that) Also, there are no evil thieves in the sequel. (tough I heard they might add one)

CaptRory

You have a Thief (you can dual class to a mage), two tanks, a mage, and a cleric.

You're not really missing anything. I'd first suggest a multiclassed Mage/Cleric but you said no clerics. Maybe play a bard or maybe a Sorceror. A Half-Orc Swashbuckler would be cool.

Tinter

Archers are a one trick pony, yeah. Any spell casting multiclass is normally fun to try doing things with spells you wouldn't as just a plain caster, Fighter/Mage is fun and a powerhouse (though not much more than a fighter early on), but really just pick whatever you will enjoy.

DarkDogg

go with a bard :-)

Elven Archer is good too. Put a star to Single wep prof (quick switch between bow and sword) and a Longsword for melee. The downside - he must be Good.
Elven Archer was one of my favourite classes in BG2.

szb

Also, you won't be able to play an evil archer for long because you'll become fallen archer when your reputation goes down.

DarkDogg

szb said:

Also, you won't be able to play an evil archer for long because you'll become fallen archer when your reputation goes down.

Helmet of opposite alignment!

kissoff

Thanks for all the comments.

szb: I didn't think of that.

I guess the Bard option is not bad at all. Should I go with Blade?

What is a good Blade build in terms of proficiencies? Can someone who has played as a bard before briefly explain the combat playing style and preferred weapon choice.

rdarken

A little tardy to the party here, but I was debating Archer myself. I ultimately rolled a Fighter who is specializing in Longbow (and Halberd) and he is amazing and the most fun I've had.

HugoRune

I'd say an elf fighter/mage with proficiencies in longbows and either halberd or quarterstaves. More arcane magic is always good, especially if you continue on through the whole series, and you've also got an extremely competent archer this way. You might want to consider switching to shortbows in SoA if you want to go on archin', but you'll have enough pips for that anyway.

diggerb

HugoRune said:

You might want to consider switching to shortbows in SoA if you want to go on archin'

Why?

szb

diggerb said:

HugoRune said:

You might want to consider switching to shortbows in SoA if you want to go on archin'

Why?

Best bows are short in bg2.

amftron

I'd choose shortbows anyway, i think over the whole sagag they are just better.

HugoRune

Just because shortbows are a bit better than longbows in BG2. First you've got the tuigan bow for extra apr and then of course the shortbow of gesen which requires no ammo, does good elemental damage and hits as +4 (as far as I remember), the only bow in the game that does that. Lonbows all only give some minor boni (+2/+3) to Thac0 and damage. The best longbow in the game (the only bow that's upgradeable in ToB) just gives +5 to Thac0 (which is just 1 more than Gesen) and increases movement rate, in other words does exactly what those Boots of Speed you've been running around in since BG1 do.

kissoff

I've been reading in other posts that there are some bugs involved in bards and that the song is not so strong. Maybe F/M is the way to go in the end. I liked the idea of having 2 thieves (Imoen & MC) in the party so that I call specialize them in different abilities. With a F/M I won't have that. Also, I will end up with 4 spellcasters in the end (with Imoen dual classing to Mage). Isn't it too much?

CaptRory

No such thing as too much spellcasting, hehe.

HugoRune

Personally, I don't think so. Especially late in SoA and in ToB arcane magic just beats everything. Mages can make themselves completely immune to everything the enemies can throw at them, can field their own armies of extremely powerful summons and do all kinds of ridiculous stuff in general. Bards too, especially Blades become extremely powerful if you use them right. You'll have to be careful about who gets which spells in the beginning but that becomes less of a concern later on.

A thief is also a great option for your party, though. Since Imoen will be dualled you won't have a really competent thief in your party unless you take Jan in BG2 but that'd really be arcane overkill, probably. Imoen can handle the basic stuff of trap detecting and lock picking well enough so you could focus on stealth, backstabbing and setting traps. I like fighter/thieves best but bounty hunters are also great.

Madhax

I'm having a blast playing a Blade right now. You can't go wrong simply dual-wielding longswords. The only problem is that you're rolling like a fighter/mage without the option to dump charisma, so you'll need a very high stat roll if you want a high starting strength along with dexterity, constitution, and intellect.

A Blade would nicely fill the role as flank attacker and backup caster to Edwin, and since you can pickpocket, that frees up Imoen for support skills.

Alternatively, a fighter/thief could work well. Imoen can focus on traps/locks, allowing your PC to totally dedicate themselves to stealth.

TJ_Hooker

DarkDogg said:

szb said:

Also, you won't be able to play an evil archer for long because you'll become fallen archer when your reputation goes down.

Helmet of opposite alignment!

This wouldn't actually affect whether or not a ranger becomes fallen.

DinsdalePiranha

you're a bit light on backstabbing, an FMT maybe? though they only become the coolest guys on the block in BG2, they're pretty handy even in BG1, but it would make your party a wee bit melee heavy. (anything over 2 melee chars is a bad idea imho)

or kick two (Imoen, Kagain?) and add Monty and Xzar to the group for awesomeness, then you even have backstabbing covered.

btw be warned, Imoen adds exactly jack shit to the plot in BG1, I don't think she even has interactions with anyone. (last minute character and all that)

edit, because I missed the most obvious solution: kick someone (Kagain?), add Shar-Teel, dual her to thief. now you have melee, backstabbing, and everything an aspiring CHARNAME needs, your options are near limitless.

Lemernis

Re: your planned party composition and choice between Archer and F/M:

I'm finishing a game with a half-elven Fighter-Mage who is Chaotic Good, with a bit of a mercenary streak in him, and have the following party:

Imoen
Viconia
Rasaad
Neera
Dorn

and I've had no trouble maintaining that party composition whatsoever. (PC has Cha 10.) I deliberately avoided getting reputation too high. And around the time I felt it was creeping a bit higher than I would like (despite avoiding most of the simple rep + 1 quests) Neera accidentally killed innocents when a wild surge caused a fireball when she cast Oracle in BG city.

My F/M dual-wields long sword and katana, and even though he spends time casting spells a lot during battle, now finishing chapter 7 with ToSC completed the protagonist has 46% of the kills to Dorn's 25%. Dorn is a total beast, as we know. But by comparison my F/M has the same Strength (thanks to the Strength tome) and his superior attacks per round makes him much deadlier. Anyway, with Fighter/Mage you can have a very satisfying character (if you love combining both melee and spellcasting) who is an utter badass.

But that said, in the party you're going with you've got the two best NPC tanks in the game. So you very well could play an Archer. The problem I've heard with an Archer is that by ToB, the biggest, baddest enemies are virtually invulnerable against arrows. I've never tried to see if a combination of buff-removing spells and arrows of dispelling make those enemies hittable with arrows. (One possible solution is to create a custom enchanted bow that grants some limited capacity to hit those targets. Or are certain enemies hardcoded to be unhittable with arrows? A modder would have to tell you. Such an item would have to be created with an editor and added to your game with the editor.)

You might also have a F/M begin by specializing in the bow and later on develop him as a dual-wielder.

Lemernis

I'll echo what @DinsdalePiranha said: you could replace Imoen with Shar-Teel and dual Shar-Teel to Thief. Myself, I would dual Shar-Teel to Thief at Fighter level 3 (you can still get her to Mastery in Two-Weapon Style when she reaches Thief 4--which is really quickly).

It doesn't bother me that EE changed Shar-Teel's profs to dual-wield long sword and dagger. I look forward to equipping her with the dagger of venom and shadow armor. With her outstanding Str and Dex she'll be a very hardy meleer after her devastating backstabs.

I just have a difficult time dropping Imoen from the party, regardless of the concept I have for the game. But in order to experience greater variety of NPCs sometimes you have to. Maybe you can have Imoen on board at least through the Nashkel mines and until you get to Shar-Teel's area, so that there's a bit more feeling of continuity into BG2, i.e., that you have adventured some together at least.

Lemernis

Another suggestion: Blade is comparable to F/M. There's debate about which is more powerful. But they're both exceedingly strong, so it's ultimately a matter of taste.

Malbortus

The F/M would be an excellent choice, versatile and fun throughout.

Another option is to devise a custom character. For example, I wanted an assassin that stayed lethal in melee beyond the initial backstab. To me that was more important than traps, locks and pockets. So I used Shadowkeeper to change a multi-class fighter/thief to a fighter/assassin.

Corvino

Fighter mage is a very solid option. All the beating-stuff-up goodness of a fighter with the ability to buff oneself to unhittability thrown in.

Worth considering though is the race of your main character, especially if you intend to keep a similar party composition into BG2 (Subbing Korgan for Kagain probably) and do a romance subplot. This leaves Dorn and Viconia as your romance options. Viconia will not romance elves or dwarves/halflings/gnomes, but Dorn will tap just about anything.

kissoff

Those are actually good options, however I don't want a custom character.

In @DinsdalePiranha & @Lemernis suggestion, if I drop Imoen for Shar-Teel, won't I have a gap in thieving skills until Shar-Teel gets a few levels as a Thief? (assuming that I would be a blade or f/m myself? What about plot implications in BG2? It's been a while so I don't remember much of it, except that Imoen was always in my party in all the previous playthroughs.

With regards to romancing I will def go for half-elf in case of F/M and human for Blade, to be able to go with Viconia.

DinsdalePiranha

@kissoff: I actually wouldn't drop Imoen for Shar-Teel... why? she's a fighter and a backstabber, whereas Imoen should be focusing on traps and locks - you pretty much can't have both on the same char.

I'd personally give the boot to one of your melee chars, and replace 'em with Shar-Teel - she becomes almost as effective as they can be in melee, and backstabbing is really great in BG1.

but no matter your picks, bottom line is: backstabbing goes a long way to make you awesome, but you do need someone to deal with traps, even if it means backstabbing is out. you can use Shar-Teel as traps chick instead of Imoen if you really want to, but... ehh. she's too good at ruining someones day one kidney at a time, that's what I'm saying. plus your team would be even more melee heavy, which can bite someone majorly in the ass.

kissoff

@DinsdalePiranha: Ok.

To summarize:
Shar-Teel, dual-classing to thief at level 3
Imoen, dual classing to mage at level 7
Edwin
Viconia
Dorn

PC options:
Blade
F/M dwarf (romance with Shar-Teel)
F/M half-elf (romance with Viconia)

For the F/M scenarios is it worth specializing in bows in the beginning and move to dual-wielding later on?

Which one will make the most balanced group?

DinsdalePiranha

@kissoff: not bad, though I'd dual Imoen sooner (4? 5? don't know if she can put together enough thief skill during that time), and until she gets her skills back, use Shar-Teel with master thievery potions to cover for her. but that should be a pretty solid team.

as for romance, there are only 2 romance options in BGEE: Neera, or... Dorn. Shar-Teel is a man hater, and Vicky only gains any real personality in BG2.

geselle

After too many playthroughs i decided it is the best idea to roll the dice, to determine what PC I play. Only way for me to play without sitting half an hour and more thinking what class i should play.

Malbortus

Since you don't want a custom character, you can scratch the dwarf F/M off the list. That race/class combination is not in the standard game.

For balance, a blade or an F/M don't make a difference. Personally I prefer the F/M for their additional attacks (all the time, as opposed to offensive spin) and better THAC0 (-10 after level 20). That's not to say that a blade doesn't enjoy some better breakpoints (e.g. +10 caster levels at 3M XP), but IMHO the F/M is generally the stronger melee option.