dire charm counts as death huh

EnterHaerDalis

Only 3 people are alive in my party ;


Charname gets Dire Charmed by a Sirine and proceeds to kill Dynaheir and Safana. Game over??? Really??

So the life of a Bhaalspawn when Dire Charmed comes down to whether or not a random NPC's heart is still beating? Does this make sense to anyone?

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Pantalion

Yes, if you get Dire Charmed and have no friendly characters nearby, your party has deceased, leaving you with no living party members on your team.

From a thematic perspective, your CHARNAME just went back to her Sirine masters and made kissy face, instantly dying a horrid drowny death.

UnknownQuantity

I forgot they can do that. I just killed them yesterday, but didn't notice as Cavalier are immune to charm.

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RedGuard

Pantalion said:

Yes, if you get Dire Charmed and have no friendly characters nearby, your party has deceased, leaving you with no living party members on your team.

From a thematic perspective, your CHARNAME just went back to her Sirine masters and made kissy face, instantly dying a horrid drowny death.

To be fair, not that horrid. :P

ZanathKariashi

Actually....in the original, you were just charmed till it ran out then resumed the battle with no real consequence other then being bored out of your mind cause the duration in BG1 was double what it is in BG2 and EE. IN BG2 (or Tutu/BGT), it was instant death, if there were no other living party members, same for being mazed...which is totally retarded as maze is a completely harmless spell.

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The_New_Romance

It really is retarded. I don't see why Maze or Dire Charm are equivalent to insta-death spells. They eventually wear off, and especially Dire Charm ends if one of your enemies attacks you. This, however, doesn't mean it might kill you...

Justarius

Algernon's cloak is literally a lifesaver vs those peskie Sirines.
"Obey me! Muahahaha"
"No, obey me!"
"O... oh bother. Well played pink skin"

EnterHaerDalis

that's got to be the stupidest thing in the entire game hands down

What's the difference between Dire Charm and any other spell that takes away control? Why isn't there insta death on Confusion, Horror, Hold Person, Domination or Feeblemind? I don't see what the difference is ; they are all spells that take away control and none of their duration's are permanent.

Quartz

Yet more reasons why ...

Djimmy

Pantalion said:

Yes, if you get Dire Charmed and have no friendly characters nearby, your party has deceased, leaving you with no living party members on your team.

From a thematic perspective, your CHARNAME just went back to her Sirine masters and made kissy face, instantly dying a horrid drowny death.

Then explain the charm spell caused by a trap. Who actually charms you? The trap maker? What if he/she is dead?

In BG2 there are these Alu-Fiends in the teleport maze of the Watcher's Keep that charm you regardless of your charm resistance. I have 90% charm resistance(being an elf) and I get charmed all the time. Spell Immunity enchantment doesn't help too. All hail The Equalizer, Shield of Harmony and every Charm Protection Helm. So is this a bug? Someone?

SharGuidesMyHand

Quartz said:

Yet more reasons why ...

LMAO!

ajwz

Maze instakills charname too

moopy

Dire charm killing your party if there is no one left makes sense to me. The sirens or whoever has you stick a knife in your own neck.

Maze killing you and ending the game has always really pissed me off.

Edwin

There are mods that address these things. not just imprisonment and charm, but also 'frozen death' and having an enemy drop his loot whenever you turn him into a statue.

EnterHaerDalis

moopy said:

Dire charm killing your party if there is no one left makes sense to me. The sirens or whoever has you stick a knife in your own neck.

Maze killing you and ending the game has always really pissed me off.

It makes sense to you that Dire Charmed Charname should live only if an arguably useless Safana with 5hp half way across the map is alive also? It makes absolutely no sense, period. Using that logic any spell that takes away control should kill you if no other NPC is alive. Tarnesh casts horror on your Solo Mage at Friendly arm inn, does it make sense you should Die because he could just stick a knife in your neck?

moopy

@EnterHaerDalis

My main point I made poorly was that maze killing you is way dumber because maze is harmless and while mazed they have no way to hurt you.

@Edwin
Imprisonment should instantly end your game if no one else is left alive, because you don't get to come back from that. Maze is completely harmless though and you always come back from it safely.

Allbrother

moopy said:

Imprisonment should instantly end your game if no one else is left alive, because you don't get to come back from that.

Yeah but if you have buddies they should be able to free you
Basically all the insta-death crap should go away

ZanathKariashi

Unless of course a spell specifically says it as an effect. Charm effects are problematic since they can't ask you to take any obviously self destructive action (well technically...it doesn't let them control you AT ALL, it just alters your perception to consider them a good friend (Charm person has a save bonus, Dire charm has no bonus..that's the only difference)...only Domination spells and effects offer direct control (and suicidal orders would break the spell).

So....a charm/dom spells should never result in instant death, just result in a bonus to their chance to hit on their next attack (once all other hostile targets are taken care of (much like players do in such situations)) since it would come as a surprise attack.

I do agree Imprisonment shouldn't be an immediate game over, only if no one in the party can cast Freedom, and/or there's no other scrolls of freedom available in your current phase of the game (since the plot can't continue without the Bhaalspawn).


But yes, I actually do prefer BG1 over BG2. There's a few conveniences that are missed but over all, BG1 (without TuTu/BGT/EE) is a much more challenging and interesting game.

Quartz

ZanathKariashi said:

But yes, I actually do prefer BG1 over BG2. There's a few conveniences that are missed but over all, BG1 (without TuTu/BGT/EE) is a much more challenging and interesting game.

Yeeaaahhh boi.

Oxford_Guy

Justarius said:

Algernon's cloak is literally a lifesaver vs those peskie Sirines.
"Obey me! Muahahaha"
"No, obey me!"
"O... oh bother. Well played pink skin"

BTW the charm person ability of Algernon's cloak can only be used once a day in the current build of BGEE now (thankfully!). Safana also now gets Charm Person as an innate (instead of Charm Animal), which makes more sense.