Why cleric when you have *SPOILER* abilities? (Half Orc)

SuperFeature

SPOILER = Bhaalspawn

I basically want to rip through the game with an evil character. I played through with a blade and Dorn just demolished most of my worries.

I want to have fun with an evil party and tear up the coast, so why play fighter/cleric when I can play a Barbarian Half Orc or Berserker Half Orc (Neutral Evil = DUHM)?

Others can buff and such but as a steamroller on legs. What am I missing that might make a F/C better for a pure powergaming experience?

Spoiler tag added. -Jalily

EnterHaerDalis

I thought Blackguards were over powered then my solo blackguard learned a horror spell after resting....

Now I basically feel dirty even touching a blackguard

Tinter

You give up your berserker rage, some hit points and some weapon access.

You gain 9 spells + wisdom bonus extras which contain many more useful buffs than just DUHM (though you can cast that more as well!)- Armour of Faith, protection from evil, animate dead, holy smite and last but not least holy power.

At BG1 levels you will actually have more profeciency points to spend and better thac0 than a pure warrior. A F/C used properly gives up a little and gains a lot compared to a pure warrior.

leeho730

Depends. In BGEE, you could be right. Raising cons to 20 just before rest will completely heal you.

True, F/C is kinda redundant...

But pure cleric kits have some neato abilities.... Seeking sword is OP at that level (+4 weapon with 3 attacks per round and with low level setting of BGEE TACH0 of fighter and cleric ain't that different), true sight is extremely useful against mirror image and storm shield + well aimed lightning in confined space (like cloak wood mine or nashkel mine means many enemies will either die or become badly injured. I've looked at spell files and it is also interesting to note that seeking sword will last for 10 rounds (60 seconds) at level 1, i.e. 1st level priest of helm uses seeking sword as if he/she is level 10...

scriver

Shadowkeep or F/C into a Berserker/Cleric.

Powergame achieved.

ZanathKariashi

Because you don't keep them forever.

Though it technically doesn't matter as by the end of the saga, an evil half-orc Barb/Berserker can have a base of 25 str (the berserker is a little better, since it's rage adds +2 damage rather then +str like the barb does which is wasted as a result), innate immunity to +1 or lower weapons (the con isn't worth taking as the extra hp is pointless and the regen from it is overwrote by AotU or RoG), if you're a Barbarian, your innate damage reduction is only 5% less then max level AoF, so you end up with 80% DR (which if used with the AotU or Foebane+5 makes you virtually impervious to physical damage, and combined with other gear, you can actually heal from blunt and piercing, and are immune to missile damage), using the same gear as a F/C.

Both rages block almost every thing a cleric could (though the Barb can't block imprisonment, where as a Cleric can via spell shield).

SuperFeature

Strong beginnings.

Half-Orcs are pretty broken in BG1 (Broken = Fun) +5 to hit, +11 to damage in a Rage (19str + Rage) is just unstoppable.

There's something so empowering about being able to march into any given battle without long buff prep and see everything explode into gore.

So I say, F/C, eat your heart out, natural selection at it's finest.

DinsdalePiranha

what @Tinter said, F/C (more specifically: 'zerker -> cleric) is alpha as fuck.

also, Bhaalspawn abilities are nice and all, but... cleric DUHM has the casting time of 1, as in almost instant - bhaalspawn one takes one *round* to cast.

half-orcs btw aren't such an über race - you can reach 19 str with other characters too, and there's little difference between 19 and 20. also, there are enough strength potions in the game that Shar-Teel in my party pretty much uses 'em as mouthwash. on the other hand: no dual classing, which is very, very painful.

SuperFeature

DinsdalePiranha said:

what @Tinter said, F/C (more specifically: 'zerker -> cleric) is alpha as fuck.

also, Bhaalspawn abilities are nice and all, but... cleric DUHM has the casting time of 1, as in almost instant - bhaalspawn one takes one *round* to cast.

half-orcs btw aren't such an über race - you can reach 19 str with other characters too, and there's little difference between 19 and 20. also, there are enough strength potions in the game that Shar-Teel in my party pretty much uses 'em as mouthwash. on the other hand: no dual classing, which is very, very painful.

I realize Half-Orc isn't uber, many would consider shorty saves to be better long term, but 19str + Rage in BG1 from the begginging... come on, what is going to stop you? Plus immunities?

The STR tome is rather late in the game and potions VS. multiple rages per day with NO penalties post rage... I just wish Barb could dual and he'd be ridiculous.

leeho730

ZanathKariashi said:

Because you don't keep them forever.

Though it technically doesn't matter as by the end of the saga, an evil half-orc Barb/Berserker can have a base of 25 str (the berserker is a little better, since it's rage adds +2 damage rather then +str like the barb does which is wasted as a result), innate immunity to +1 or lower weapons (the con isn't worth taking as the extra hp is pointless and the regen from it is overwrote by AotU or RoG), if you're a Barbarian, your innate damage reduction is only 5% less then max level AoF, so you end up with 80% DR (which if used with the AotU or Foebane+5 makes you virtually impervious to physical damage, and combined with other gear, you can actually heal from blunt and piercing, and are immune to missile damage), using the same gear as a F/C.

Both rages block almost every thing a cleric could (though the Barb can't block imprisonment, where as a Cleric can via spell shield).

Barbarian/Berserker possible? I thought IE treated Barbarian as fighter kit class...

SuperFeature

Holy s*** I think you're right. When you dual does it just say "Fighter/Cleric"? But you have barbarian abilities? Barb Cleric... OMG

DinsdalePiranha

@SuperFeature: barbarians can dual with fixpack installed iirc. take note, however, barbarian -> clerics can't get grandmastery - 'zerker -> clerics CAN.

19 str is nice and all, but remember 2 things: if your str is 18/50+, a single strength spell can set it to 18/00, for a long time, which is very close to 19. also, DUHM makes 18 str jump up to 19-20.

they are useful, no doubt, I just think human 'zerker dualed to cleric is somewhat better. (also, they can actually heal. a lot.)

Tinter

Right. Strength is cheap to boost- there are loads of potions and spells that will do it. Its also nice to have, but really between 20 and 23 is +2 to hit, +3 damage; about the same as the bonuses of bezerker rage, its not actually substantively better in that respect. Getting to OMG high levels in core stats is rarely as amazing on paper as is hoped.