Advanced Option: Slider Bar for Trap/ Lock and Spell Learning XP Award

Bhryaen

This would look like (from left to right):
1- Normal XP received (from Tutu). (DEFAULT)
2- Half the normal XP received (from Tutu).
3- No XP received, just as in BG1.

Note that vanilla BG1 does not award such XP. It is only the ToB engine that ends up adding it. This just enables the player to reduce it or restore the BG1 rule.

This is one in a series of game features I'd like added in a separate settings section called Advanced Options that is available at game start (to make it easier to implement). It would be entirely optional to even peruse it, clearly designated as "Advanced Options" (even throwing in "Intended for more experienced players" if that's deemed necessary), and only available on the Character Creation screen. It would mean an in-game tweaking mechanism.

[EDIT] The BG2 amount of XP is awfully high for a BG1 thief, so I switched the wording to "Tutu." I also included Spell Learning since this makes a Mage/ Thief the most viable XP sponge...

sarevok57

@Bhryaen i think that idea is outstandingly amazing because there is already a lot of xp to be made in bg, and those things in my opinion make you grow up levels waaaaay to fast, that would be awesome, and i would say same thing goes for wizard spells as well, those give you soooooooo much xp its insane

ElectricMonk

@Bhryaen Agreed, this would be a nice feature, I'd definitely like to be able to turn off the trap/lock xp.

Dee

I don't know why, but I'm leery of changing the amount of XP awarded. I'm sure it has nothing to do with wanting the XP in BG1; I just can't quite identify it.

I don't see why it couldn't be an option; I just don't think I'd ever use it.

Bhryaen

@Aosaw
Well, as I mentioned, in vanilla BG1 there is no XP awarded, so there wouldn't even be anything to change or tweak except that the ToB engine is applying it retroactively... I wouldn't use the XP award myself. I'd rather make No XP be the default...

AzL0n

I personally don't understand the desire to turn off lock/trap xp. Of course I would be turning it off too if they were to give out like 2000 for every locks and traps such as it is in SoA but obviously that won't be the case. 25 xp or so for the basic locks and traps would be fine by me. You would have to open up a LOT of locks in Beregost to get your level up out of that much and in that case I guess you'd deserve it. Then they could give gradually more experience as the locks and traps get harder which is already how I think it works in SoA right? I've never really given any attention to how much experience it was giving me based on the locks difficulty so I'm not sure.

Anyway I guess they could add this one as an option too. We're getting to have a LOT of option requests though, that many boxes to check or not check might confuse a newbie. Oh well

sarevok57

@AzLOn, its actually based on your level ( sometimes your current experience if you are a multi class) the higher level your thief/ thief type is, the more xp you get from locks and traps

Lindeblom

Could this somehow be Protagonist driven? If the main character is a thief you get experience from learning/finding new traps. As a Magician you get xp for spells you learn, not the spells your team learns.

sarevok57

all xp is shared regardless on how it is earned, hence the term; The party has gained experience: x amount, and locks and traps and such are 100% thief level/ current xp level dependant, regardless if they be the pro or not

caruga

I think the xp reward should scale with lock difficulty and PC level (with a cap at say, level 9), so that a proportionate amount of xp is 'organically' rewarded without ever giving too much out, including level 1.

Bhryaen

@caruga
I disagree about making the XP reward PC level-based since it introduces absurdities about trap/lock/spell rewards that are lower at lower levels when they're actually arguably more experience-enhancing challenges at lower levels when learning is more intense. At higher levels one doesn't have to work so hard at the same old locks/traps, so why more XP for them? I'd keep the XP reward fairly fixed and modest based on lock/trap difficulty (maybe even 1XP per lock % since that maxes at 100XP) and also on spell level (10XP per level), but I'd also want this option to negate it entirely... since that's what I'd likely do if it felt too cheesy.

The only argument I have for making XP canon is that it already exists in BG2 and will likely remain so, and thus for continuity sake there should be a system that bridges both games appropriately.

caruga

absurdities about trap/lock/spell rewards that are lower at lower levels when they're actually arguably more experience-enhancing challenges at lower levels when learning is more intense

I don't think this is absurd and I don't think it indicates a decline in learning experience, if you regard the exp as a relative proportion of the current level-progress, rather than an absolute number.

Say the scroll or lock gives you 4% of level progress in exp terms, be you at level 1 or level 7 That's 50 xp at level 1 and 1600 xp at level 7. That's a huge difference... or it's the same, if you regard it as 4%. After which this figure is rescaled depending on the difficulty (perhaps a snip of your thinking could be used here: the lock-difficulty and level-disparity could upscale it).

Maybe also introduce a cap on a percentage of level progress, just as a safety net.

Bhryaen

@caruga
It's also a matter of how much simple lockpicking, etc. is supposed to matter to your game experience. If being a thief is supposed to make any thievery boost you up a proportionate amount, then your idea works. If being a thief is just one class in many and the regular rewards from simply playing the game are what matter, then a fixed amount seems more appropriate since the advantages to a thief at lower levels would be greater due to learning and practicing their craft but this wouldn't be the focus of the game thereafter. Take, however, your example and try to apply it given how many doors and chests there are to be unlocked as well as traps to undo in the game. It's a lot. It's a lot of boosting you get that other classes don't, and at a proportional rate- and so is the level advancement- so you may as well get at least multiclass thief to get all those level boosts. Also why not just wait until a higher level to unlock/spring them since the proportion of XP is the same? That is, you'd go up a level just as easy at higher levels, so since the number of containers is fixed, why not metagamingly wait until a higher level?

caruga

Also why not just wait until a higher level to unlock/spring them since the proportion of XP is the same?

I see what you mean, but there is a workaround: freeze the reward for opening the lock at the level you generate the map. Then again, I'm not saying I like that workaround either.

I see what you're saying, it doesn't keep it real. It would really suck if enemy encounters also awarded percentage-of-progress exp like I'm proposing locks and scrolls do. Absolute values have their appeal.

I think no exp or a flat but insignificant exp reward (like 50 exp for all locks) may, then, be best.

Bhryaen

@caruga
I agree, though I do like the idea of harder locks/ traps/ spells getting more XP (if it's going to be awarded). As much as one might get just as used to picking harder locks as easier, it does something for experience when one can ably pick hard locks over and over. At least this is what I sense in my own experience of, say, troubleshooting problems with easy solutions or difficult ones: even if I can manage both, the difficult ones remain more rewarding.

Lunever

I'd rather calculate the XP amount on the trap/lock difficulty/spell level:
Required percentage x 20 XP
(Spell Level x 10) squared XP

Bhryaen

@Lunever
Just trying to get that calculation correct. So say my 1st level halfling maxes out on DEX and OL. With the halfling race bonus this makes him able to pick that 65%-OL-required lock upstairs of the Candlekeep Inn. (Actually it might be a 70% one- can't recall.) So by your system she/ he would get for that one chest 65 X 20 = 1300XP? Nice work for a halfling thief- and only a halfling thief- and now easily the only race/ class combo that can move to Level 2 before leaving Candlekeep.

Yeah, I think the less-imbalancing system is also the simplest:

for thief skills- difficulty % = XP reward
for mages- Spell Level X 10 = XP reward

Lunever

@Bhryaen: Well, I was probably thinking to much in BG2 ranges, but the details can be changed, it was just a first example.

With your suggestion however XP rewards are to low for BG2.

We need something in-between. Instead of having a switch that calculates differently when proceeding from ToSC to SoA the Chapter number might be used as a multiplicator to your suggstions to make the transition between BG1 ranges and BG2 ranges smoother.

kamuizin

About the lockpicks and Traps, i believe that XP for open locks shoud be banished/extemly reduced. 2 reasons, 1° add to much xp in an already overpowered game, 2° make force locks with strenght useless, or at least becomes biased the need for a thief in the group. At least me, i can't play a gameplay without a thief in the group, to be forced to walk and activate all the traps on the game if i don't have one...

About scrolls, the XP need a balance, but unlike traps/locks that have other options with no xp (as force lock), i believe that a table of xp based on the scroll level shoud be implemented.

Ex:

1° - 50xp
2° - 200xp
3° - 600xp
4° - 1500xp
5° - 4000xp
6° - 6000xp
7° - 10000xp
8° - 15000xp
9° - 50000xp

However, you can ONLY gain xp from scribe a scroll, IF you have a chance of fail in learn that spell (if ppl just reload after, it's their problem, who like a roleplay will respect the events), so no XP in scribe a scroll in easy difficult (pretty much the halved xp that happens when you put on the easy on the original engine of BG).