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Kivan - Worth making use of the two weapon style points by placing 2 points in a sword skill?

RahlikRahlik Member Posts: 86
in Archive (General Discussion)
Hey guy's I'm just levelling Kivan up to level 2. Now I am unable to place points any further into Longbow of course as he comes with 2 already. My question simply is; Is it worth specializing in a sword skill e.g. long or wazikashi as a synergy for the two points in two weapon style fighting or should i pump the points in to crossbow just in case i get a nice crossbow drop upgrade?

I'm inclined to go the CrossBow route but am just looking for thoughts and alternatives; thanks.
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Comments

  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    Wait, you got a weapon pip at level 2? Hax!
  • RahlikRahlik Member Posts: 86
    Sorry I meant level 3.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,419
    edited January 2013
    Kivan is a good dual wielder, his high dexterity makes it easy for him to skip a shield. The only problem is it's awkward to switch between bow and two weapons. You would have to open the equipment screen and re-arrange stuff every time you wanted to switch.

    I know it wastes the dual wield pips a Ranger gets for free, but I usually give him a two handed weapon for melee like Halberd or Two-handed Sword.

    I would not recommend crossbow. Obviously its your choice, but crossbow is simply not terribly effective as a weapon (1 attack per round for 1d8; vs 2 attacks at 1d6 for a bow). If you were building your own character for use into BG2 I might say differently (there are some better crossbows available in BG2, and there is some value in using different types of ammo), but Kivan doesn't make the jump with you so I wouldn't bother.
  • RahlikRahlik Member Posts: 86
    Cheers, I wasn't sure if there were any added crossbows of value in bg:ee or not. I will take a look at what I think i want to give him in terms of melee weapons then, I do agree it is fiddly to switch to 2 weapons and can get irritating over time!
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    Kivan's best role IS as an archer though. I usually have him dual wield. It can be annoying to switch things around, but you usually want him shooting a bow. I only really have him put his swords on:

    1) If I'm fighting something that's only hurt by magic which I usually just have everyone surround it and beat it to a pulp.

    2) If I find myself needing extra tanks.

    Neither comes up too often.
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    lDanielHolm said:

    IWD2 did the weapon swaps much better (instead of swapping between individual weapons, you swapped between sets), and I was disappointed that they didn't incorporate the same idea into BG:EE.

    Indeed, this would have been quite the... enhancement... that's a good word right?
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    lDanielHolm said:

    IWD2 did the weapon swaps much better (instead of swapping between individual weapons, you swapped between sets), and I was disappointed that they didn't incorporate the same idea into BG:EE.

    Now that's maybe something to think about being turned into a mod!

  • RahlikRahlik Member Posts: 86
    Yeah it would be a useful feature. It's a bit annoying not going with a characters strengths due to UI issues.
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,642
    I usually forgo using Kivan as an archer and make him a front line fighter instead, so I make him dual wield.
  • RhymeRhyme Member Posts: 190
    Rahlik said:

    Cheers, I wasn't sure if there were any added crossbows of value in bg:ee or not. I will take a look at what I think i want to give him in terms of melee weapons then, I do agree it is fiddly to switch to 2 weapons and can get irritating over time!

    Light Crossbow of Speed. +1 attack per round. With regular ammo, it's still not quite as good as the Composite Long Bow+1, but the attacks/round will be the same, and the damage is somewhat comparable. The real advantage of the Light Crossbow of Speed is that it gives you a use for those magical crossbow bolts.

    You don't necessarily want to make Kivan a longbow/crossbow user (I wouldn't. I'd prefer longbow/melee weapon), but having one crossbow user in your party would be a good thing.
  • RahlikRahlik Member Posts: 86
    that's a good point I could probably set up Ajantis as a xbow user once I fill out 1h+shield specialisation to go with his bastard sword specialisation :)
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    Rahlik said:

    that's a good point I could probably set up Ajantis as a xbow user once I fill out 1h+shield specialisation to go with his bastard sword specialisation :)

    Never thought of that with Ajantis, of course I always mod him into a Cavalier anyway, plus unmodded AJ gets Bow pips.

  • EnterHaerDalisEnterHaerDalis Member Posts: 813
    It doesn't matter because you will rarely have him at the front.

    99% of the time he's with a bow. And don't you even think about taking his full potential away from him!

    but yeah I usually dump them in longswords ^^
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,606
    I always use him as my ranged fighter. He good with bows so keep him there.
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    edited January 2013
    18 with exceptional Str vs 17 Dex... we really supposed to keep him at the back lines? I won't deny he's a decent archer, possibly third best unmodded, but... never letting him have a melee hit?
  • NaastriilNaastriil Member Posts: 60
    I turned him into my melee attack team with Ajantis. I pickpockeded Drizzt for his blades and I got my own mini drizzt :)
  • RahlikRahlik Member Posts: 86
    Naastriil said:

    I turned him into my melee attack team with Ajantis. I pickpockeded Drizzt for his blades and I got my own mini drizzt :)

    can you pick pocket both blades off drizzt then? I thought it was only the one. I did consider giving kivan a set of awesome blades but i have just picked up the composite longbow +1 from beregost. :-)
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    edited January 2013
    @Dazzu

    He'll always do more damage with a bow than he will with any melee weapon.

    And I just give him the Chesley Crusher since he already has 2 points in halbreds for those rare occasions where he is forced into melee.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    Yeah I used him as archer %99 of time then changed him with Coran. (20 dex and mastery in bows, plus thiefly skills!) I wish Kivan had an archer kit though..that would be, like, ten times cooler, he would be the best archer NPC, and Kivan is already cool! ^^
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    I have been toying with changing him into an Archer with Shadowkeeper.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Yeah, Scimitars, two thereof, belonging to another Chaotic Good Elven Ranger. He turns into an absolute blender.
  • DeucetipherDeucetipher Member Posts: 521
    edited January 2013
    @lunar
    Unzip this into your override folder for Archer kit kivan

    http://www.2shared.com/file/xNL-GIKN/KivanArcher.html

    Won't changing your existing Kivan, but any subsequent game he will be an archer. Use SK to change your current Kivan
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    Deucetipher said:

    @lunar
    Unzip this into your override folder for Archer kit kivan

    http://www.2shared.com/file/xNL-GIKN/KivanArcher.html

    Won't changing your existing Kivan, but any subsequent game he will be an archer. Use SK to change your current Kivan

    Thank you ^^ but I am playing on ipad, so no chance for me, bummer. :-) You are kind to offer help, though.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    edited January 2013
    Personally, I do put points into a one handed weapon. But generally, not a Sword type. I put it into a blunt weapon. that way he is primarily an archer, but if facing something that takes reduced damage from piercing weapons, I have an alternate.

    Again, personally, he is far to good an archer not to make use of those skills. Presently he is in my party at level 6. His THAC0 with bow is 6 and he gets 5/2 attacks per round. And with a compound bow that adds up to a lot of damage, much more than he would get if he dual wielded anything. His THAC0 with Flail (where I put my points) is 13 and 1 attack (or 13/15 with weapon in both hands). But again, there are things where a blunt weapon is called for. So why not maximize on that?

    Also, due to him being a ranger (rangers get D8 for Hit points in the rule set used for BG instead of D10 for fighters), he doesn't have as many hit points as straight fighters. Believe it or not, Kalid and Jahiera both make better front liners than Kivan. Also, if you keep him in leathers, he can scout. but it makes his AC a bit less than your average front liner.

    finally, there is at least one +2 Halberd in the game. so if he needs to get up close and personal, that is going to be a better bladed weapon than having to chase down points in Long Sword (for example).

    The only real reason I can think of doing Swords would be if no one else in your party (including the PC) makes use of long sword. There are some good Long swords that go to waste at that point.
  • leeho730leeho730 Member Posts: 285
    We get them for free... Might as well make some use out of it...
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    the_spyder said:

    Personally, I do put points into a one handed weapon. But generally, not a Sword type. I put it into a blunt weapon. that way he is primarily an archer, but if facing something that takes reduced damage from piercing weapons, I have an alternate.

    This.


    Also, as an Archer, he can be outdone by Coran (extra dex, I believe mastery with bows) and Khalid (Same dex, can GET Mastery in bows.) Shar-teel possibly could if you do some clever thief dual classing, but that one'll take a while. Again, Mod Kivan to an Archer kit and this is all a bunch of lies, but is otherwise true.

    I believe in the original BG and Bg2 Elf bonuses weren't really implemented... or not correctly.
  • KortokKortok Member Posts: 165
    No. Archery is simply better in BG1.
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    Re: Kivan vs Coran as archers and general party members - you may be able to make a statistical argument that Coran is a better archer but I have always maintained that if you put the same weapon/ammo in their hands and have them face the same enemy(s) (in game not on a calculator) the results will not differ enough to matter.

    Add to that Kivan may have an edge if an enemy makes it past the hail of arrows to melee range (higher str and more hps) and that Kivan is available right out of Candlekeep and Coran not until chap 4.

    With that in mind if I am looking for a party archer I'l take the Clint Eastwood wanna-be over the dead-beat dad every time... ;-)
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    Wanderon said:

    With that in mind if I am looking for a party archer I'l take the Clint Eastwood wanna-be over the dead-beat dad every time... ;-)

    LOL. I kind of think of him as a Wolverine wanabee. But now that you mention it, I can definitely see him channeling his inner Eastwood.

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