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Travel spawn incongruence

BhryaenBhryaen Member Posts: 2,874
edited June 2012 in Archive (Feature Requests)
This request emerges from my discussion (now in the General forum) of how odd creature alliances are sometimes. I've decided not to pursue an entire world-encompassing creature faction rework, but I would still request this "feature" which involves a rework of the random system of auto-selection of creatures for the "waylaid by enemies" travel encounters.

Probably the worst instances of mixing together creatures that should otherwise be hostile to each other (but end up only hostile against you) poorly are the travel encounters. Sometimes the oddest assortments sometimes crop up. Once I had xvarts with their pet basilisk... Huh? Certainly weren't any petrified xvarts in that encounter, but Imoen didn't flee quite so fast when she was a statue. I mean, when would a xvart take on some huge creature as its pet...?... Uh... OK, bad example. But just consider the following list as a potential like-type grouping of creatures that would appear at a travel encounter. The travel encounter system could seriously use a rework so that enemies of different types no longer appear together in the first place, perhaps breaking down spawn groups to random selections from within these groups:

- wyverns, old and young
- spiders, ettercaps
- ghouls, ghasts, skeletons, zombies
- bandits, gnolls, hobgoblins, kobolds, Black Talon Elites
- ogres, ogrillons, ogre mages
- gibberlings and... more gibberlings?
- wild and war dogs, wolves
- bears and xvarts

Now, I know that HeroicSpur some people might say, hey, but it's such a great challenge to have creatures of ridiculously different tendencies and ecosystemmic bases and natural antagonism suddenly paired together to battle the party. (Well, he, I mean, they might not word it that way.) But, you see, with the groupings I listed above there is a nice mix of potential archers + melee or magic + melee... And besides, then you don't get creatures of ridiculously different tendencies and ecosystemmic bases and natural antagonism suddenly paired... Well, you get the point...
Post edited by Bhryaen on

Comments

  • KoreKore Member Posts: 245
    More gibberlings! Actually I would like the odd waylay where there are hundreds of gibberlings but scattered around the party so that a mere fireball can't just wipe them out.
  • CadrosCadros Member Posts: 253
    For the Xvarts I can only presume that his mightiness Nexlit the hero Xvart can not only tame bears, but also bassilisks, however you will have to ask chief fan member @HeroicSpur.

    Generally though I don't think the combinations are too bad. I can imagine gibberlings would follow whatever brought them the most food, as would wardogs/ wolves. Considering that some of the ambushes are being coordinated against charname by a powerful organisation I dont think many of the combinations are too ridiculous.
  • BhryaenBhryaen Member Posts: 2,874
    I just moved this to the Feature Requests forum since I can't find a way to present it that's "non-controversial" as a bugfix. Of course, when it's encountered, it does look like a bug in-game, and it walks like a bug in-game, and it quacks like a bug in-game, but... yeah, not a bug. *sulks*
  • CadrosCadros Member Posts: 253
    Awww, have a drink to relax, and listen to some predetermined gossip/rumours I also think that level 1-2 parties shouldn't get the ambushes which have 5+ archers immediately fire arrows at you, generally lucky not to immediately die if you are a mage or thief.
  • BhryaenBhryaen Member Posts: 2,874
    edited June 2012
    @Cadros Yeah, those encirclements by bandit archers, half-ogres, and dogs with a 4HP mage usually feels like a firing squad. Too bad when they open fire we can't just yell, "duck!" and let the bandits send a volley into the half-ogres. Still, it's not the challenge that irks me. I agree with @HeroicSpur entirely on the fun factor being there tactically. It's the induced eye-rolling that's caused by the combinations of enemies which I take issue with. I'd just like the challenge to appear natural and native, not arbitrary and half-arsed.

    As to your suggestions of other combos, yes, I could see dogs being trained to be with bandits. (Hard to know what a wild war dog actually is. Maybe something like a beam dog?) But aren't gibberlings supposed to be crazed beasts ever-voracious and untamable, particularly in the safety of the "pack?" And not to pick on xvarts- who would do such a thing anyway when picking on them isn't half as fun as Fireballing them?- but do they ever appear in the main screens in conjunction with anything but that blasted cave bear? Typically they do their own rascally thing. Yet suddenly in travel spawns there they are with everything else. Just saying- lots of BG background world consistency being undermined by the arbitrary spawn-scripting.
  • HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 907
    @Bhryaen: I agree, encounters should be more rationally assembled as you suggest.
  • BhryaenBhryaen Member Posts: 2,874
    @HeroicSpur :-)
  • carugacaruga Member Posts: 375
    Sure this isn't an effect of playing BG1 in the BG2 engine?
  • BhryaenBhryaen Member Posts: 2,874
    edited June 2012
    @caruga
    Hm, you may be right... I'll test it on vanilla BG1...
    Post edited by Bhryaen on
  • BhryaenBhryaen Member Posts: 2,874
    edited June 2012
    @caruga

    Just got combinations of:
    Xvarts and ogrillons
    Worgs and half-ogres
    Wolves and dogs
    Skeletons, ghouls, and *ahem* (undead-following) wolves...
    Xvarts and gibberlings
    Kobolds and wild (*ahem*) dogs
    Ogre mage and (non-hostile) mountain bear

    And that's not to mention ones that are notorious in BG1:
    Bandits and gibberlings
    Wyverns and giant spiders
    Bassilisks and xvarts

    We could presume a lot regarding wolves/ dogs being domesticated, but... It's a presumption, and with a name like "Wild Dog" it's hard to presume it domesticated. And how much time do ogrekin take in domesticating wolfkin?

    It could use a little work...
  • carugacaruga Member Posts: 375
    edited June 2012
    @Bhryaen

    Fair enough! I'm not sure what impact the BG2 engine has on BG1 random encounters, but I felt certain at the least it would cause out-of-depth encounters, like seeing ghasts in the first two levels. I agree that those combos are improper (although you could view them not as a team but as different enemy types that merely happen to be near each other... kinda improbable).

    Increasing the beastiary would be good for giving the devs more choices when designing these encounters. It could be the simple dearth of enemy choices and the desire for variety in the encounters that lead to these. I get the distinct impression they were caught short for time with the BG1 development.
  • CuvCuv Member, Developer Posts: 2,535
    @Bhryaen I agree! Dont have anything to add to your reasons:-)


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