Should druids have more spells? II
Necroblivion
Member Posts: 210
Sorry for my previous poll. I forgot to add a "no" option.
I am making this poll not because driuds have no spells. But because I, as a player, do not use many of them. I am talking here mostly about 2nd level spells and maybe 4th. Though few more spells could be added to every level.
Also I am not talking about new spells. Few spells from both arcane and divine lists can be added. Spells like web, glitterdust, aid or chant. The thing is that in other games and editions they have a lot of entangle like spells, CC, and other area of affects. I had both Feldorn and Bronwen in my group and I felt that the later had much more to add to the group, spell-wise and combat-wise. Though, I haven't used the wild shape ability so I might be wrong here.
Anyway, I would really like to read how you guys are using your druid. And if you think they have the spell list that they need what spells do you chose? (I just noticed that they have a charm person that I always thought was affecting only animals, a thing which greatly improved the 2nd level list for me).
I am making this poll not because driuds have no spells. But because I, as a player, do not use many of them. I am talking here mostly about 2nd level spells and maybe 4th. Though few more spells could be added to every level.
Also I am not talking about new spells. Few spells from both arcane and divine lists can be added. Spells like web, glitterdust, aid or chant. The thing is that in other games and editions they have a lot of entangle like spells, CC, and other area of affects. I had both Feldorn and Bronwen in my group and I felt that the later had much more to add to the group, spell-wise and combat-wise. Though, I haven't used the wild shape ability so I might be wrong here.
Anyway, I would really like to read how you guys are using your druid. And if you think they have the spell list that they need what spells do you chose? (I just noticed that they have a charm person that I always thought was affecting only animals, a thing which greatly improved the 2nd level list for me).
- Should druids have more spells? II76 votes
- Yes. Druids need more spells.46.05%
- No. They have a good spell list.30.26%
- Yes. But only at specific spell levels.23.68%
1
Comments
In the BG series, I view druids as having inferior defensive/support spells to clerics, with only a small handful of offensive/summoning spells to make up the difference. The only point in the series where I'd rather have a druid than a cleric is in the end of BG1, where a druid's temporarily faster leveling speed allows them to reach level 5 priest spells while clerics are stuck at level 4.
I'm no programmer, but I'm crossing my fingers that Overhaul/Beamdog has access to the IWD druid spells and can easily convert them into the BG series. This would make playing a druid (Or finally bothering to haul Cernd around) much more enjoyable for me.
Ironskins is another very solid spell. Nothing flashy, it just turns a multi or dual fighter/druid into a mean tank.
Call woodland beings is pretty overpowered for its level. You summon a nymph who can cast spells *above the level of the spell that summoned her*.
Summoning spells at very high levels are also fantastic, as is Nature's Beauty.
Your point though is that many of their spell levels are pure filler with no real application. I agree wholeheartedly. Compared with Clerics who have useful, bread-and-butter spells at every spell level druids are a bit lackluster.
There's also a lvl 2 summon spell for a small air elemental. A few others....
IWD Druids are just way more fun to play and also more significantly different from the Cleric because most of the priest spells in the game are Druid-exclusive or Cleric-exclusive. There are rather few spells that both receive.
Insect plague is probably the best druid spell.
Call Woodland Beings deserve a special mention too for it's power at the level you access it.
I still think Druids could use some more of their offensive spells they get in NWN and IWD though.
L1 Sunscorch
Spell : Druids, Rangers
School : Invocation
Target : 1 creature
Range : Sight of caster
Casting Time : .4 round
Effect : A brilliant ray of scorching heat slants from the sky and
strikes the target.
a. Undead and light-sensitive creatures...
1. Suffer [casterlevel x 2] + [1 to 6] fire damage,
maximum average damage of 63.5.
2. Become blinded (-4 penalty to THAC0, -4 penalty to
AC) for 3 rounds.
b. Other creatures...
1. Suffer [casterlevel + [1 to 6]] fire damage,
maximum average damage of 33.5.
2. Become blinded (-4 penalty to THAC0, -4 penalty to
AC) for 3 rounds.
L2 : ALICORN LANCE
Spell : Druids, Rangers
School : Invocation
Target : 1 creature
Range : Sight of caster
Casting Time : .5 round
Effect : Caster creates a silver-hued, partially ethereal lance shaped
in the form of an alicorn (unicorn horn). The caster chooses a
target and the alicorn lance instantaneously fires at it.
1. The Alicorn Lance does 3 to 18 piercing damage (average
of 10.5).
2. It leaves a silvery radiance around the the target that
makes him easier to see (-2 AC penalty for 3 rounds).
L3 : SPIKE GROWTH
Spell : Druids, Rangers
School : Alteration
Target : Area
Range : Sight of caster
Casting Time : .6 round
Effect : Terrain within 15 feet of cast point is transformed into spiky
plants. Creatures on the affected area suffer...
1. 1 to 4 piercing damage (average of 2.5) every round
2. 1 to 4 slashing damage (average of 2.5) every round
(Maximum average damage of 50 over 10 rounds, per victim.)
Duration : 10 rounds
Avoidance : None
L3 : CLOUDBURST
Spell : Druids, Rangers
School : Invocation
Target : Area
Range : Sight of caster
Casting Time : .6 round
Effect : Brings magical rain that saturates every area within 30 feet of
cast point. Creatures in the affected area are affected.
1. FLAME BLADEs (2D), SHROUD OF FLAMEs (5M), Salamander
Auras are extinguished.
2. Each round, there is 50 percent chance creatures are
struck with lightning bolts, doing 2 to 12 electrical
damage (average of 7), save vs spells to take only
half damage. (Note : equivalent of 100 percent chance
to get hit once over 2 rounds.)
3. Each round, cold and fire dwelling/using creatures take
additional 2 to 12 magic damage (average of 14 ?ver 2
rounds).
Duration : 2 rounds
Avoidance : See effect
L4 : SMASHING WAVE
Spell : Druids, Rangers
School : Invocation
Target : Angle
Range : 40 feet
Casting Time : 1 round
Effect : Summons a wave of water that moves in the direction willed by
the caster, striking all in its path with massive force.
1. Creatures caught in its path suffer 4 to 40 crushing
damage (average of 22).
2. There is a 25% chance that creatures struck are stunned
(cannot move/ attack/ cast/ defend) for 2 rounds.
3. 5% chance they get knocked unconcious (cannot move/
attack/ cast/ defend) for 2 rounds.
Duration : Instant
Avoidance : Save vs breath weapon to take only half of damage, and to
avoid getting stunned or knocked unconcious
L4: THORN SPRAY
Spell : Druids, Rangers
School : Alteration
Target : Angle
Range : 30 feet
Casting Time : .3 round
Effect : Enables the caster to cause a spray of barbs, spikes, thorns,
and spines to spring forth from his hand, flying through a cone
area 30 feet long, 60 feet wide at its widest (long wide cone,
almost 90 degrees).
a. Creatures within the affected area must save vs death or
suffer 2 to 20 piercing damage (average of 11).
b. If a save is made, they suffer 1 to 10 piercing damage
(average of 5.5) instead.
Duration : Instant
Avoidance : See effect
L5: SPIKE STONES
Spell : Druids, Rangers
School : Alteration/ Enchantment
Target : Area
Range : Sight of caster
Casting Time : .6 round
Effect : Causes the terrain within 15 feet of the cast point to be
warped into spiked projections that naturally blends in the
background.
1. Creatures within the area of effect suffer 2 to 8 piecing
damage (average of 5) every round; with a maximum
average damage of 60 over 12 rounds, per victim.
2. Must save vs spells every round or have their movement
rate slowed by 30 percent for 1 round.
Duration : 12 rounds
Avoidance : See effect
Is there any balance reason for not implementing these into the BG series? They're fun spells to use, and without them I find druids to be extremely dull. Insect Swarm may be powerful, but it's boring.
If you just give them access to more spells - specifically those currently available only to clerics - I feel it would homogenize the two classes too much. Since innate shapeshifting is something very unique to druids, I'd rather see that buffed over their spell selection.
Then there is the whole thing about the structure of the interface. Too many icons and you end up not being able to show all of the icons.
I guess I would end up defaulting on the "I think there is a better spell list for Druids that could be implemented." But I don't have input on which spells should be removed and in place of what.
But again, remember that any such endeavor needs to be thoroughly vetted for balance in relation to the encounters in the game. And that is a lot more complex than the actual implementation of the spells. Players are notorious for finding loop holes and combos that the developers and testers never thought of.
@the_spyder Too many choices can indeed be a problem, and if someone were talking about adding more Mage spells I'd probably point out that the spellbook interface can barely hold all of the Mage spells which already exist. The Druid gets so few spells at the first and second level, though, that I think it could easily stand to have a couple more without being overwhelming.
Really, I'd be happy if the Druid just got one or two generally useful spells at the second level. The problem with the current spell list at that level is that all the spells are either useless (Know Alignment, Goodberry) or highly situational (Slow Poison, Resist Fire or Cold). While a Cleric can just prepare a bunch of Chant spells if he doesn't have a specific situation to prepare for and count on using them, my Druids often end up not touching their second level spells because I didn't need fire damage and didn't encounter any poisonous enemies that day.
As for Slow poison being situational, you are right. BUT..... How many poison dealing monsters are there in the game? Quite a few. Cloakwood is rife with giant spiders of all description and finding yourself without a Slow poison or a potion of Antidote is a recipe for dead characters. At low level, characters are particularly succeptable to poison. Not so at higher levels. For my money, Slow poison is kind of like a condom. I'd rather have it and not need it then to need it and not have it.
Bless + Chant + Hold are very good spells I'll agree. Still I find the most useful spells to be cure wounds and slow poison in BG1. I usually load up on them because being poisoned means death in this game. If I have two healers I'll usually assign 2nd and 3rd circle cleric spells Hold Person or Remove Paralysis.
Magic Missile caps at 5 missiles? Damage is 5D4+5. Average max damage is 15? Ok, sure it is automatic hit provided you aren't protected against it, but that doesn't offset max average damage of 63.5/33.5. Even at 9th level (where MM caps), this spell is doing average 18+3.5. Must be nice....