I am totally with you on the dual-classing thing. It's overrated, annoying, and immensely unsatisfying as a player. @Lemernis summed it up pretty well. I would actually abandon your game if I were you, because if it's just frustrating then that ruins the point of a game, you know? You're supposed to be having fun.
CHARNAME mages are boring and unoriginal. moving on
In BG:EE, they made Invokers less crap. They are no longer barred from Conjuration, just Enchantment. Which means Dynaheir's 1st-3rd level spell book will be pretty good. Her 4th level will just be pitiful, and her 5th level will be okay.
Khalid is fine. If you don't know how to develop him, that's your problem.
Xzar is badass. He has good stats, good class and is hilarious. Don't hate. If HP is an issue, what the bloody hell are you doing getting him attacked in the first place?!
Minsc is not the only 18+ strength good character. You're forgetting Kivan (18/12) who, in fact, mops the floor with Minsc's stupid ass. (Ranger who actually fulfills ranger role instead of being a fighter called a ranger for no damn reason. He has a good Dexterity, Minsc's is pathetic. Etc.)
I'm also busy laughing at you saying that BGII has a better NPC selection. You really must choose purely based on stats or something. The biggest reason I prefer BG1 > BGII is because of a bigger NPC selection ... BGII you end up playing the same damn parties over and over, which gets old real fast.
-----
Btw, if you want to do a really cheap, quick, badass dual-class instead of waiting mid-game. Make a human Assassin. Get him to level 2. Dual-class to Fighter. Merry Christmas, you can have a Fighter who has Grandmastery by Fighter Level 3 and Poison Weapon ability on top of it.
hummm.. was unaware of the invoker change... that does make Dynaheir/Minsc a more attractive option. And yes, I've never gotten why the hell Minsc is supposedly a ranger either. And OK, yeah, forgot Kivan, mainly 'cos I think him more an archer then a melee character.
As for Xzar and not taking care of him enough, A: he has no dart or sling skill and it's hard to keep him stocked on throwing daggers. B:
"You have been attacked by enemies and must defend yourself."
"So I like kicked him in the head till he was DEAD! Haha!"
*death scream as Xzar falls with multiple arrows stuck in him*
"And the mad wizard falls!"
Honestly, why the **** do they keep insisting on giving mages melee weapon proficiencies?!!!
@Quartz Thanks for setting him straight about BG:EE's change to the Invoker (haven't used Dyna or played one yet, so that was news to me).
@ScytheKnight Are you running AI scripts for Xzar? I don't have the game in front of me atm, but IIRC it's found under Customize on the UI. (If not, someone else will tell you where to find it in the UI.) If Xzar is rushing into melee after exhausting his spells and ranged ammo I would recommend setting scripts to None. Then the character will do only as you direct.
Xzar has a prof in Dagger but he can throw daggers as well as use one in melee. Sending him toward an enemy fighter type with a dagger hand to hand is suicide, as you have no doubt discovered.
There isn't going to be a whole lot of difference between him throwing daggers and slinging stone bullets, though, even if he has a weapons prof in Dagger. Mages don't really do much with whatever they're hurling. If you want to just give him a sling instead of throwing daggers it won't ultimately make much of a difference in the game.
Btw, you can pick up tons of free throwing daggers:
In the map with High Hedge, Thalantyr's fortress. The skeleton's drop them.
I have Edwin with Arla's Dragonbane and +2 Bullets and he still hardly hits anything when he's out of spells, which is rare. He did get a hilarious bullet-kill on some personage once, though. Trying to remember who it was. I think it might have been Prat at the end of Chapter 6.
Well, I think I'm gonna give evil one more try before I throw in the towel on it... but damn it's not easy, so many pure class characters makes a wide variety hard.
ATM having trouble deciding between Neera for extra magic power or Kagain for tanking.
Without a 2nd mage of any kind my magic abilities seem a bit week for later games... but with two pure mages and a wimpy cleric it lacks some up front survivability. That said Edwin and Faldorn should be able to bury enemies in summons between them.
Wait... wait... there's a sorcerer now? *sighs* ohhh why do You have to make things so hard?
It isn't critical to have two healers,* so you might go with
CHARNAME - Bounty Hunter or Swashbuckler Dorn Viconia Edwin the mysterious new NPC who shall remain nameless
and then you might want another strong meleer alongside Dorn: either Kagain or Shar-Teel.
Kagain is badass. He regenerates HP with his extraordinary Con.
Shar-Teel has relatively low Con for a Fighter. But with her great Str she's a heavy damage dealer. If you put her in ankheg armor you'll get her AC quite low, and then she's not going to get hit much anyway.
And despite your bad experience dual-classing Imoen, if you dual-class Shar-Teel to Thief at level 3 (mind you, she joins at level 2) then you'll get her Fighter skills back very quickly. You'll want to take some care in how you allocate her weapons profs, however. She comes with profs in Long Sword, Dagger, and dual-wielding. If you do take her and dual her to Thief, then you have a little more room to distribute Thieving skills for things like finding traps and picking locks between your PC and her.
@ScytheKnight, with one NPC slot left, If you are worried about front line survivability, pick up Kaigan. Strap the Dex Gauntlets on him, give him some full plate and you best shield, and you have a highly durable little dwarven wall.
Also, I'd probably switch the second cleric for the spoiler. 2 mages trumps 2 clerics.
Well, to not feel like a total git ran through a Black Pits party before I got for Mr. Spoiler.
Holy hell what a mess...
Christina Whiteblade: (LG Human Inquisitor)
The idealistic leader of this intrepid troop of indentured individuals, Christina leads from the front, protected by heavy armour and shield as well as the unshakable faith of a paladin. Her distrust of magic and her ability to nullify its effects lead to the death of many a malignant mage at the edge of her bastard sword!
Gorumal Mordak (NG Half-Orc Berserker)
A brawny and burly bruiser whose barbaric bestial nature is honed with brutal blade brandishing bar-excellence! Never far from the blood pumping brutality of body-on-body battle this Half-Orc combines barbaric rage and brilliant bladesmanship, brandishing a bloody two handed sword and a bulwark of metal as his blade sunders foe from limb in a bloody rain of battered body bits!
The Silverstream Siblings (CG Elf Swashbuckler and Archer)
The scintillating sideshow of the Silverstream siblings surprises and slaughters in a symphony a swordsmanship and shooting!
In a dizzying and dashing display of danger and daring-do watch as Elinaria Silverstream dances from foe to foe leaving a trail of death and dismemberment in her wake! Her twin katanas making her among the deadliest of combatants the Black Pits have ever seen!
Able to draw the mightiest of bows, capable of skewering a galloping gibberling's eye at fifty yards! Moredanel Silverstream makes most marksmen look like rank amateurs, from silencing mages permanently with an arrow to the throat to the humiliation of shooting a giant in the knee there is no feat of marksmanship beyond this elf and his mighty compound bow!
Fascinating, fabulous and fast-thinking this gnome is the fulcrum from which many of this group's battles have been moved. Her combination of illusions, offensive magic and clerical powers have turned many a tough battle into a resounding victory!
Timral Lorsen (NG Half-Elf Sorcerer)
This stoic sorcerer has almost impressed me with his deadly array of magical misfortunes for his unfortunate foes. At least his favoring for fire makes cleaning the pits easier as it usually requires only sweeping the ashes away.
I think I just sprained my vocabulary...
Face it, this group was OP as heck, but the Swashbuckler was by far the worst... two +2 katanas, +2 studded leather, PG ioun stone, girdle of stone giant strength and the blink boots... once I gave her the blink boots just set her to Wizard Berserk AI so he's just attack the closest enemy in range and just let her blink from enemy to enemy, i usually managed to get Haste on her before she started blinking as well so that just meant even more mayhem... dammit now I gotta stop speaking in alliteration!
Holy hell Bounty Hunters are OP... just started a new game and stole the chest of gold and flamedance ring from the Inn. Watcher comes to knock my head in, for a laugh i try taking him on, when I get my head almost caved in by his staff I run into one of the smaller room to break line of sight and drop my special snare... Watcher walks into the room and takes 31 damage and hits the deck.
So yeah, lost 5 rep, but now got the flamedance ring that sold well as well as a set of plate armor I sold for 300 GP and 175 XP for killing a watcher..
5 minutes in and 4 reputation... this could be an interesting play through.
@ScytheKnight Man, those are awesome portrait choices for your Black Pits party above. If you don't mind posting stats for those characters in this thread I'd like to feature them on a site elsewhere, if that's alright with you (for my own BG related project). If so, I'll PM you the link. And I very much enjoyed your Baeloth inspired descriptions, which cry out to be featured as well. Nicely done!
Timral's portrait seems to have a sinister air. (Looks like it's in the Gothic/vampire vein.) Did you mean NE, i.e., rather than NG?
@ScytheKnight Man, those are awesome portrait choices for your Black Pits party above. If you don't mind posting stats for those characters in this thread I'd like to feature them on a site elsewhere, if that's alright with you (for my own BG related project). If so, I'll PM you the link. And I very much enjoyed your Baeloth inspired descriptions, which cry out to be featured as well. Nicely done!
Timral's portrait seems to have a sinister air. (Looks like it's in the Gothic/vampire vein.) Did you mean NE, i.e., rather than NG?
Comments
What I liked:
Dual-classing whining
What I disliked:
Everything else
I am totally with you on the dual-classing thing. It's overrated, annoying, and immensely unsatisfying as a player. @Lemernis summed it up pretty well. I would actually abandon your game if I were you, because if it's just frustrating then that ruins the point of a game, you know? You're supposed to be having fun.
CHARNAME mages are boring and unoriginal. moving on
In BG:EE, they made Invokers less crap. They are no longer barred from Conjuration, just Enchantment. Which means Dynaheir's 1st-3rd level spell book will be pretty good. Her 4th level will just be pitiful, and her 5th level will be okay.
Khalid is fine. If you don't know how to develop him, that's your problem.
Xzar is badass. He has good stats, good class and is hilarious. Don't hate. If HP is an issue, what the bloody hell are you doing getting him attacked in the first place?!
Minsc is not the only 18+ strength good character. You're forgetting Kivan (18/12) who, in fact, mops the floor with Minsc's stupid ass. (Ranger who actually fulfills ranger role instead of being a fighter called a ranger for no damn reason. He has a good Dexterity, Minsc's is pathetic. Etc.)
I'm also busy laughing at you saying that BGII has a better NPC selection. You really must choose purely based on stats or something. The biggest reason I prefer BG1 > BGII is because of a bigger NPC selection ... BGII you end up playing the same damn parties over and over, which gets old real fast.
-----
Btw, if you want to do a really cheap, quick, badass dual-class instead of waiting mid-game. Make a human Assassin. Get him to level 2. Dual-class to Fighter. Merry Christmas, you can have a Fighter who has Grandmastery by Fighter Level 3 and Poison Weapon ability on top of it.
As for Xzar and not taking care of him enough, A: he has no dart or sling skill and it's hard to keep him stocked on throwing daggers. B:
"You have been attacked by enemies and must defend yourself."
"So I like kicked him in the head till he was DEAD! Haha!"
*death scream as Xzar falls with multiple arrows stuck in him*
"And the mad wizard falls!"
Honestly, why the **** do they keep insisting on giving mages melee weapon proficiencies?!!!
*Cast magic missile*
*Cast magic missile*
Damn, out of spells... umm.. OK, I have no armor, no THAC0 and the HP of a wet paper bag... TIME TO CHARGE IN WITH MY STAFF!
*facepalms*
Aren't mages supposed to be highly intelligent?
@ScytheKnight Are you running AI scripts for Xzar? I don't have the game in front of me atm, but IIRC it's found under Customize on the UI. (If not, someone else will tell you where to find it in the UI.) If Xzar is rushing into melee after exhausting his spells and ranged ammo I would recommend setting scripts to None. Then the character will do only as you direct.
Xzar has a prof in Dagger but he can throw daggers as well as use one in melee. Sending him toward an enemy fighter type with a dagger hand to hand is suicide, as you have no doubt discovered.
There isn't going to be a whole lot of difference between him throwing daggers and slinging stone bullets, though, even if he has a weapons prof in Dagger. Mages don't really do much with whatever they're hurling. If you want to just give him a sling instead of throwing daggers it won't ultimately make much of a difference in the game.
Btw, you can pick up tons of free throwing daggers:
Thinking so far is
CHARNAME - Bounty Hunter or Swashbuckler
Dorn
Viconia
Edwin
Branwen -> Faldorn
ATM having trouble deciding between Neera for extra magic power or Kagain for tanking.
Without a 2nd mage of any kind my magic abilities seem a bit week for later games... but with two pure mages and a wimpy cleric it lacks some up front survivability. That said Edwin and Faldorn should be able to bury enemies in summons between them.
Wait... wait... there's a sorcerer now? *sighs* ohhh why do You have to make things so hard?
It isn't critical to have two healers,* so you might go with
CHARNAME - Bounty Hunter or Swashbuckler
Dorn
Viconia
Edwin
the mysterious new NPC who shall remain nameless
and then you might want another strong meleer alongside Dorn: either Kagain or Shar-Teel.
Kagain is badass. He regenerates HP with his extraordinary Con.
Shar-Teel has relatively low Con for a Fighter. But with her great Str she's a heavy damage dealer. If you put her in ankheg armor you'll get her AC quite low, and then she's not going to get hit much anyway.
And despite your bad experience dual-classing Imoen, if you dual-class Shar-Teel to Thief at level 3 (mind you, she joins at level 2) then you'll get her Fighter skills back very quickly. You'll want to take some care in how you allocate her weapons profs, however. She comes with profs in Long Sword, Dagger, and dual-wielding. If you do take her and dual her to Thief, then you have a little more room to distribute Thieving skills for things like finding traps and picking locks between your PC and her.
Anyway, that way your party is all evil.
* Just use more potions.
Also, I'd probably switch the second cleric for the spoiler. 2 mages trumps 2 clerics.
Holy hell what a mess...
Christina Whiteblade: (LG Human Inquisitor)
The idealistic leader of this intrepid troop of indentured individuals, Christina leads from the front, protected by heavy armour and shield as well as the unshakable faith of a paladin. Her distrust of magic and her ability to nullify its effects lead to the death of many a malignant mage at the edge of her bastard sword!
Gorumal Mordak (NG Half-Orc Berserker)
A brawny and burly bruiser whose barbaric bestial nature is honed with brutal blade brandishing bar-excellence! Never far from the blood pumping brutality of body-on-body battle this Half-Orc combines barbaric rage and brilliant bladesmanship, brandishing a bloody two handed sword and a bulwark of metal as his blade sunders foe from limb in a bloody rain of battered body bits!
The Silverstream Siblings (CG Elf Swashbuckler and Archer)
The scintillating sideshow of the Silverstream siblings surprises and slaughters in a symphony a swordsmanship and shooting!
In a dizzying and dashing display of danger and daring-do watch as Elinaria Silverstream dances from foe to foe leaving a trail of death and dismemberment in her wake! Her twin katanas making her among the deadliest of combatants the Black Pits have ever seen!
Able to draw the mightiest of bows, capable of skewering a galloping gibberling's eye at fifty yards! Moredanel Silverstream makes most marksmen look like rank amateurs, from silencing mages permanently with an arrow to the throat to the humiliation of shooting a giant in the knee there is no feat of marksmanship beyond this elf and his mighty compound bow!
Jamina Fiddlefingers (LG Gnome Cleric/Illusionist)
Fascinating, fabulous and fast-thinking this gnome is the fulcrum from which many of this group's battles have been moved. Her combination of illusions, offensive magic and clerical powers have turned many a tough battle into a resounding victory!
Timral Lorsen (NG Half-Elf Sorcerer)
This stoic sorcerer has almost impressed me with his deadly array of magical misfortunes for his unfortunate foes. At least his favoring for fire makes cleaning the pits easier as it usually requires only sweeping the ashes away.
I think I just sprained my vocabulary...
Face it, this group was OP as heck, but the Swashbuckler was by far the worst... two +2 katanas, +2 studded leather, PG ioun stone, girdle of stone giant strength and the blink boots... once I gave her the blink boots just set her to Wizard Berserk AI so he's just attack the closest enemy in range and just let her blink from enemy to enemy, i usually managed to get Haste on her before she started blinking as well so that just meant even more mayhem... dammit now I gotta stop speaking in alliteration!
So yeah, lost 5 rep, but now got the flamedance ring that sold well as well as a set of plate armor I sold for 300 GP and 175 XP for killing a watcher..
5 minutes in and 4 reputation... this could be an interesting play through.
Timral's portrait seems to have a sinister air. (Looks like it's in the Gothic/vampire vein.) Did you mean NE, i.e., rather than NG?