Reputation management
CTKnightOwl
Member Posts: 88
Playing a good character is easy. You make all the noble choices and get to enjoy a 20 reputation well before the end of the game. Playing neutral or evil is slightly more challenging in that aspect. There are times when you want your rep to be low to keep your evil NPCs happy. Also, for dream sequences, your rep determines whether you get a good dream (and corresponding power, cure light wounds/slow poison/draw up the holy might) or an evil dream (minor drain, horror, vampiric touch). It is too bad there is no neutral dreams/powers.
To get an evil dream your rep only need be 9 or lower. Unfortunately there are times when you get rep increases just for advancing the story line. So there is no way to avoid getting a rep increase for say, clearing out Nashkel mines. (side note, I do wish they would fix it so that evil NPCs don't complain everytime your rep goes up if it is going from 6 to 7...I mean we're still disliked. what's the problem Xzar?)
There are multiple times you can kill someone without suffering rep loss. However, I have found myself killing a random commoner just to get that rep down so I can get my evil dream.
One day, I killed the guy in Nashkel who pays bounties and he had a few thousand gold on him. No one was around so it didn't trigger any hostiles. So this got me thinking, there has to be many situations where bringing your rep down for practical (evil) purposes can be profitable as well.
Your thoughts?
To get an evil dream your rep only need be 9 or lower. Unfortunately there are times when you get rep increases just for advancing the story line. So there is no way to avoid getting a rep increase for say, clearing out Nashkel mines. (side note, I do wish they would fix it so that evil NPCs don't complain everytime your rep goes up if it is going from 6 to 7...I mean we're still disliked. what's the problem Xzar?)
There are multiple times you can kill someone without suffering rep loss. However, I have found myself killing a random commoner just to get that rep down so I can get my evil dream.
One day, I killed the guy in Nashkel who pays bounties and he had a few thousand gold on him. No one was around so it didn't trigger any hostiles. So this got me thinking, there has to be many situations where bringing your rep down for practical (evil) purposes can be profitable as well.
Your thoughts?
3
Comments
You can kill Abela the Nymph after turning her over to Ramazith and killing him, but that's a big rep hit. You lose 5 rep for giving her the hostile conversation option and then lose rep for killing an innocent on top of that when you actually kill her. On the other hand, she drops a nymph cloak and a lock of hair that you can turn into another one, so it's great if you like to run around charming everyone.
What
The
****?!
So the quest giver is a paladin, whoopdy-friggen-do... you're given no conversation options to flavor the quest, it's in an area you're fairly likely to explore and clear out, and you're given a reward, WHY is this worthy of a rep increase?
*Goes back to his contemplation of an alternative to the reputation system*
Also disappointing that I don't lose at least 1 rep for keeping Joseph's greenstone ring as payment. Killing his widow is the same as killing any other commoner; not very satisfying. There are several other things that should cost me rep, like charming the bodyguards of the guy in Beregost and have them kill him. Basically, there should be more ways to drop rep just -1 to - 3. The hits for killing commoners are pretty hard, and there are a lot random quests giving you a +1 rep, too. That would make it easier to manage rep not only for evil parties, but neutral ones. And it's kinda important for druids to stay neutral, which isn't easy if you get + rep on every corner, but - rep is hard to come by without doing outright evil things.
I have a kill list, too, starting with isolated people that I can just slay without preparing anything, such as Joseph's wife, the guy in the house in Friendly Arm, the berry picking child between Beregost and Nashkel. Profitable ones are not on this list, because they aren't "rep management", they are "fair game".
Also agreed about NPC complaints for every single point. After the mines and getting +2 rep, it's a whinefest for 20 minutes, with each party member commenting the same line again and again. With the rep still being well below 14.
I prefer the evil dreams/abilities, too, especially if I play cleric, I already have those spells and would rather add something new to the mix. But since dreams occur in new chapters, and chapters often end with gaining rep for a completed quest... I often end up with good abilities anyway.
Similarly, it doesn't bother me when a guard/paladin attacks me first and I kill them in response and lose rep, because self defense or no, people are going to give that paladin the benefit of the doubt over that shifty-looking Halfling with all the bloodstains on his armor.
Haven't played with Baeloth yet, but after the patch I loaded a save game and I went straight to recruit him, just out of curiosity. It's wierd but even though he's a drow there was no -2 penalty to rep when he joined my party. Is this a bug?
Or maybe Baeloth's so entertaining that people are willing to overlook his drow-ness.
What makes no real sense to me is... why does killing a commoner with NO-ONE TO SEE IT drop my rep? Like the berry picking child... on that map, he's the only human. And once I'm finished, not even the monsters are still alive. Who tells the tale? It's not like I march into Nashkel with the boy's head on a stick or his teeth on my necklace (but I can pretend ~dreamy smile~), yet everyone seems to know what horrible deed I have done... in a lonely forest, where several monster mobs were roaming around. Each of them could have killed the kid. Hell, the boy could have tripped or climbed a tree and fell or ate a mushroom that wasn't as edibable as it looked.
I understand my rep takes a big hit if I enter a house in a crowded village and everyone is dead when I leave. There's little room for doubt. But killing people on maps where no-one witnesses it, far from inhabited areas, with monsters everywhere? I'm not saying it shouldn't drop my rep; I'm still doing something evil. But it's not very logical that the next people I meet, regardless where I go, will know about it and turn hostile.
One of the mods puts a down on his luck bard into various inn's, and lets you bribe him to spread lies to make you seem more fierce (minus rep). My only real attempt at an evil party was saved by this mechanic, as I seemed incapable of not gaining +rep on my actions. I thought greed was supposed to be evil, but nope, they kind of reward that in the sword coast :P
Dorn and Viconia both give -2 to rep when they join
I could be mistaken but the nymph who kisses and kills you in the area north of the lighthouse (south of candlekeep) gives 5000xp and drops rep when you kill her. You can wait until after killing the ogre magi (and getting the helm of defense) and then talk to her to get the quest xp before force attacking her for a cool 5k
I agree that no witnesses should mean no rep loss. Look for a brand new episode of ELEMENTARY where the Flaming Fist hires Sherlock Holmes as a consultant to investigate murders. He manages to figure it out each time so kiss your rep goodbye.
It's the Lake Poet's Society, but they took them away from the Bandit camps and put them in Inn's. I know it's Lake Poet Willy who does the reputation for you inside the Elfsong.
EDIT: I'm pretty sure it comes from SCS, which we should be seeing a BG:EE version of any time now. (Crosses fingers, I need that mod for BG:EE!)
Unshey is an innocent so the reputation drop is 3 if the party reputation was 9 before. As example, you may get the following reputations drops:
Reputation Before: 19
Killing innocent: -10
Killing guard: -10
Reputation Before: 9
Killing innocent: -3
Killing guard: - 5
Reputation Before: 4
Killing innocent: -1
Killing guard: -2
I found that the Halfling's Belt of Piercing disappeared once you gave it to him. I tried pickpocketing him and even killing him to get it back but to no avail. I just keep it since there are a shortage of belts in BG1. I'm glad they added a few. It is much more valuable than the small amount of xp you are awarded.
I know the solution to weird reputation system!
Having Viconia in your part would give you -2 to your MAX rep. So max you could have, while having Viconia would be 18.
Same with other very-evil characters, like Baeloth, Dorn or others, where each one of them would give you another -2 to your max rep.
So with 5 super-villains in your party you would be able to have 10 reputation at max.
Also you could have that neutral characters can have base maximum reputation of 18.
Evil characters could get maximum of 16 reputation, and no more...
So add those two systems, and reputation would actualy mean something, and it would be harder to get positive reputation. Also you wouldn't have to kill innocents without any reason, just to drop your reputation.
I AM GENIOUS!
If the latter presents a problem (I don't know whether it would or not) then a base value of -2 for the mere presence of evil, irrespective of numbers, should be included at the very least.
Sometimes the simplest ideas are the best ideas.
I like a lot of the changes BGEE made, but neutral folks being happy at high rep is one thing I'd like them to undo.