Multiclass con bonuses

Wowo

I heard mention that bonus HP from high con are not divided for a multiclass character?

In the case of a F/M does it work such that you only get the con bonus for 17+ con on fighter levels or will a F/M with 17+ con have identical bonus HP as a pure fighter?

For 18 con I thought:
(4+2+(d4+2)*(level-1)+10+4+(d10+4)*(level-1))/2=~52

But if con is separate:
(4+(d4)*(level-1)+10+(d10)*(level-1))/2+4*7=~59

Which is correct?

DinsdalePiranha

you always use the highest con modifier, for all your classes. a fighter/mage with 18 con (less rounding) will gain 4 hitpoints each mage level ((base 4 + con 4)/2), and 7 hitpoints ((base 10 + con 4)/2) each fighter level... that is, till lvl 10, where they'll use the mage con mod for only the mage hp roll, because fighters gain fixed 3 hp/lvl by that point.

be aware, though, that the game likes to screw up multiclass hp calculations, particularly in the case of FMTs.

UnknownQuantity

It seems more complicated then it needs to be. IMO they should just roll D10 + constitution bonus past 18 for fighter levels and D4 + constitution bonuses up to 16 for mage levels. I don't really understand why they needed to use these complex formulas.

Guigui_le_Yoyome

UnknownQuantity said:

It seems more complicated then it needs to be. IMO they should just roll D10 + constitution bonus past 18 for fighter levels and D4 + constitution bonuses up to 16 for mage levels. I don't really understand why they needed to use these complex formulas.

Just because BG game system uses AD&D2 (Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, 2nd edition) rules and that the AD&D rules are what they are.
Bioware didn't had the choice in this matter when they designed the game. When they bought the game licence to TSR (former D&D publisher), they had to take the game rules as they were.
But one must admit that AD&D rules are a bit... complicated. Hit point calculation is, in this way, like ThAC0 and saves : complicated and not intuitive.
It is an old RPG game system, and for exemple more recent versions of the P&P game (like D&D 3rd edition, which powers the Neverwinter Nights Atari game series) are far more logical and intuitive.

TJ_Hooker

On a side note, you never lose bonus HP from CON due to roundoff (as compared to HP from your actual hit dice, where you do lose HP from roundoff).

DinsdalePiranha

@TJ_Hooker: can you elaborate a bit on that? I still have no idea what actually causes hp miscalculation on multiclasses, but what you're saying might very well be it.

example, cos I've tested this for a long time (when BG2 messed up my extra hp from familiar), trying to find out what's wrong: a fighter/mage/thief with 5,2 M xp (levels 14/14/17) has
- 109 hp if she start with 17 con then uses the con book
- 118 hp if she start with 18 con
...and the correct amount would be 114 (+1/3) hp.

Guigui_le_Yoyome

I think that an explanation is that BG doesn't work correctly with the 10th level of mage and thief classes. According to the rules, they should get a 10th hit dice (and warriors and priests get only 9 HD - don't ask why... AD&D2 is a mess), but in practice, a F/M/T gets only 1 HP from 10th level of any of his classes.

So it should be :
F/M/T 9/9/9 with 17 con : 9 x 9 = 81 HP
Lvl 10 fighter : 1 HP
Lvl 10 mage : 4/3 + 1 Con = 2 HP
Lvl 10 thief : 2 HP +1 Con = 3 HP
Lvl 11 to 14 (fighter and mage and thief) : 4 x 3 = 12 HP
Lvl 15 to 17 thief : 3 HP
Con 17 to 18 : 9 HP for levels 1 to 9 *

Total HP expected : 111

* yeah, I do not count the 18 Con for 10th level. I'm not absolutely sure, but it seems to me that when a multiclassed character has a warrior class (that is, which gets Con bonus for Con above 16), this Con bonus applies only for the levels where the warrior class get a hit dice. As fighters get only 9 HD, the 18 Con bonus doesn't count for 10th level mage and thief. So for 10th lvl, the systems works as if the character had 16 Con...

Well... Aspirin, sweet aspirin... Would you like to be my friend ? ^^

DinsdalePiranha

wait, 9 levels of all classes FMT classes should give ((10+6+4)/3+3)x9 hp, that should come out to 87. but that's not even the bit that bothers me, it's the fact that the same char, with the same con, and the same maxed hp rolls has 9 hp difference depending on whether she started with 18 con, or used the tome to go from 17 to 18.

Guigui_le_Yoyome

DinsdalePiranha said:

wait, 9 levels of all classes FMT classes should give ((10+6+4)/3+3)x9 hp, that should come out to 87.

It comes out to 87 when you calculate the total, but in game levels are gained one after the other. And at each level up, all fractions are rounded down and lost. So at each level with 17 Con, you gain 4 HP as a fighter, 2 HP as a mage and 3 as a thief. That's 81 at lvl 9/9/9 (which is totally hypothetic and only of the purpose of easing calculation, as a F/M/T can never be 9/9/9 at the same time).

For the problem of constitution that bothers you, I cannot answer it at the moment. It would require to make tests and removing BG:EE XP cap and the like...

TJ_Hooker

I've never looked at HP progression after 9th level, but I think I have it figured for levels 1 to 10.

What I meant about round off is this. When the HP you gain from levelling up in one of your classes is calculated, that value is always rounded down. For example, for a F/M/T, when levelling up as a fighter, you gain (10/3)=3.33, rounded down to 3 HP. And that round off isn't 'stored' in any way, meaning that even once you gain 3 fighter levels, the remainders don't add up to give you an extra HP. That's what I meant by losing HP due to roundoff.

This isn't the case with bonus HP from CON though. Take a FMC with 18 CON. When he levels up in his first class he'll get 1 bonus HP (4/3, rounded down). Same thing goes when he levels up in his second class. But when he levels up in his last class (thus completing one 'full' level up), he simply gets the remainder, in this case 2 bonus HP. So you don't lose any due to rounding.

Also, when calculating HP, you can't group everything together before you divide by the number of classes. For instance, for a FMC, you can't go: HP=(10+8+4)/3=7.33=~ 7. You have to go: (10/3)=~3, 4/3=~1, 8/3=~2, HP=3+2+1=6. This is true even when levelling up with multiple classes at once. The exception is at character creation, where it's calculated together, meaning an FMC will start with 7 HP.

You also have to keep bonus HP from CON seperate. For instance, for a FMC with 15 CON, when levelling up as a cleric, you don't do: (8+1)/3=3. It's: 8/3=~2, 1/3=~0 (you'd have to wait till you level up in your third class to actually get any bonus HP).