Reputation vs. True Alignment
JTM
Member Posts: 70
The rep system is well known to be broken, it's an old debate, but fun 
. There are several mods that try and fix the issue, such as the virtue mod, store price fix for low rep, etc.
You really do need to have two variables: Reputation and True Alignment (or true nature). Reputation is how others perceive you... the 'face' you wear and others see. Your True Alignment is the reckoning of your deeds witnessed by you, whether seen or unseen by others does not matter.
These two variables can coincide such as when a player's avatar does very good deeds AND they are well known for them. Or infamy where the players avatar commits evil deeds AND they are well know for them.
But the game itself shows an example of how you can have disparity in the two variables with Sarevok himself. Viewed as charming and wearing respectability like a cloak, he has a high reputation among the nobility. However, his schemes are ultimately totally self serving and evil. You as the player are the catalyst causing Sarevok to expose his true nature, thus plummeting his reputation into 'infamy'.
So yes, having drow in your party should lower your reputation...their evil nature as a race as a whole is well earned. But this reputation is based entirely on the prejudices, or lack thereof, of those around you. If your party of drow happened upon a sheltered and isolated community that has no previous knowledge of the race, then their reaction may very well be a neutral (your rep with them is neutral) one given to any stranger and perhaps charisma would weigh much more heavily in the reaction. But if your party of drow happen upon a community of Moon Elves...well, they may fight you or flee and no discussion... all due to extreme prejudice.
Drizzt is an example of a character with a noble True Alignment and a low reputation when he came to the surface. His actions of good nature eventually overcoming many of the prejudices of those around him. Until he became famous along the Sword Coast, he would still suffer the penalty of an unfavorable racial reputation when he traveled from the Dale and visited areas that didn't know of him, but knew about the drow in general. In fact, though famous he still suffers a lower reputation at times among those who can't shake their prejudices enough to see him truly. The advocacy of influential party members, like King Bruenor, greatly helped Drizzt in the beginning.
TLDR:
In summary, Reputation is fickle, variable and not always completely up to the actions of the player, but the social idiosyncrasies of the perceiving public. True Alignment is the only thing completely based upon the players individual choices, and the reasons for making them.
I believe both variables could have been implemented into the game engine. It may have been difficult and imperfect at first but with regular tuning, would have hopefully led to a better emulation of this important character aspect. At the least it could have allowed for a much bigger impact and richer experience concerning alignment chosen and alignment played...
What are you thoughts?
. There are several mods that try and fix the issue, such as the virtue mod, store price fix for low rep, etc.You really do need to have two variables: Reputation and True Alignment (or true nature). Reputation is how others perceive you... the 'face' you wear and others see. Your True Alignment is the reckoning of your deeds witnessed by you, whether seen or unseen by others does not matter.
These two variables can coincide such as when a player's avatar does very good deeds AND they are well known for them. Or infamy where the players avatar commits evil deeds AND they are well know for them.
But the game itself shows an example of how you can have disparity in the two variables with Sarevok himself. Viewed as charming and wearing respectability like a cloak, he has a high reputation among the nobility. However, his schemes are ultimately totally self serving and evil. You as the player are the catalyst causing Sarevok to expose his true nature, thus plummeting his reputation into 'infamy'.
So yes, having drow in your party should lower your reputation...their evil nature as a race as a whole is well earned. But this reputation is based entirely on the prejudices, or lack thereof, of those around you. If your party of drow happened upon a sheltered and isolated community that has no previous knowledge of the race, then their reaction may very well be a neutral (your rep with them is neutral) one given to any stranger and perhaps charisma would weigh much more heavily in the reaction. But if your party of drow happen upon a community of Moon Elves...well, they may fight you or flee and no discussion... all due to extreme prejudice.
Drizzt is an example of a character with a noble True Alignment and a low reputation when he came to the surface. His actions of good nature eventually overcoming many of the prejudices of those around him. Until he became famous along the Sword Coast, he would still suffer the penalty of an unfavorable racial reputation when he traveled from the Dale and visited areas that didn't know of him, but knew about the drow in general. In fact, though famous he still suffers a lower reputation at times among those who can't shake their prejudices enough to see him truly. The advocacy of influential party members, like King Bruenor, greatly helped Drizzt in the beginning.
TLDR:
In summary, Reputation is fickle, variable and not always completely up to the actions of the player, but the social idiosyncrasies of the perceiving public. True Alignment is the only thing completely based upon the players individual choices, and the reasons for making them.
I believe both variables could have been implemented into the game engine. It may have been difficult and imperfect at first but with regular tuning, would have hopefully led to a better emulation of this important character aspect. At the least it could have allowed for a much bigger impact and richer experience concerning alignment chosen and alignment played...
What are you thoughts?
1
Comments
I'd love to see it for BG:EE and BG2:EE. And baseline in BG3, /crossfingers.