@belgarathmth, are you still looking for educated human-like half-orc portraits? I just uploaded a large haul of fresh male and female half-orc portraits in my dropbox and I thought I'd let you know about this particular set below, since it may be of interest to you.
@Kamigoroshi, that one you posted looks like it could be a half-orc mage. Too bad BG won't let a half-orc be a mage without modding it in, but half-orcs can be anything in NWN.
@KidCarnival, those are nice, too. The females are especially interesting.
I also think that half-orcs would make good monks, with the strength and constitution bonuses. Second edition doesn't allow it, probably reasoning that their nature is too brutish to succeed at monkish discipline. But that's just racism. Third edition to the rescue again.
@belgarathmth, AD&D second edition doesn't have a monk class at all. Regardless, it would make much sense to have orcish monks in BG:EE. Orcs are a lawful evil race after all in AD&D. And even one of their pantheon deities, Yurtrus, is more or less a monk of disease himself. Hrm, thinking that way makes me question as to why Black Isle forbid half-orcs to access the monk class in the first place.
Maybe I see things too simple, but... half orcs can be clerics, the kits are called priests. A church that can have priests can also have monks. It would be weird if a faith accepted a particular group of people as priests but not as monks.
While I don't agree with it, I do see the line of reasoning. It's the lawful requirement. Their thinking was that half-orcs cannot be disciplined enough to become monks. Like I said, I don't agree with that at all, but I can see why they went there.
Since when are priests required to have *less* discipline than a monk? Priests are the community leaders of their faith and are held to high standards to serve as examples. I don't see the difference to monks.
@KidCarnival, well, like I said, I already pretty much agree with you - I think half-orcs should be able to be anything they want.
I can take the other side just for discussion purposes, though. Priestly powers are seen to be gifts from specific deities. The spells are signs of the deity's favor. The priest's alignment and disposition will match those of the deity whose favor is being sought. He or she will pray or perform rituals daily as demanded by the deity. Chaotic and/or evil deities will ask their followers to perform daily rituals that might not involve any discipline at all.
For example, you could be pleasing Sharess by having a wild orgy. You might please Tymora by running a carnival tent with lots of games of chance. Perhaps Llira grants spells to those who throw extravagant feasts, revels, and dances, and Waukeen (before she disappeared) might have called the best merchants to her service. Shar and Cyric might want blood sacrifices performed daily, Umberlee might require you to drown someone or something, and Tempus might call you to divine service for your bravery in battle or in competitive sport fighting.
By contrast, monks are seen to be gaining their powers through a very strict regimen of meditation, prayer, and exercise. Their powers don't come directly from the supporting deity through magic, but rather from within themselves. Only certain, usually lawful deities sanction and support monkish discipline among their followers. The BG rules restrict half-orcs from the discipline based on the idea that their disposition opposes monk training.
Again, I don't agree with the restrictions myself. I think they're a bit arbitrary. Most analyses I've read say that Gygax was trying to encourage most players to play humans, and the other races were supposed to be exotic exceptions to the norm, with many disadvantages, such that you'd only ever play one if you wanted to act out a roleplaying idea, as opposed to trying to gain an advantage over being human.
@belgarathmth The difference between priests and monks sounds right, now that I think about it. I probably compare too much to real churches and was picturing the outrage if any of them said "alright, we will allow women to be priests from now on, but monks/nuns? NO FREAKING WAY, LADIES". Having many different ways to worship deities makes priest a more flexible role, though I can also accept it as a non-lawful deed to dedicate ridicolous amounts of time and work to practise something, for no apparent reason. If a chaotic person (though not a half-orc) can become a specialized mage, the same person could also decide to learn something else, such as skills a monk has. Chaotic doesn't mean the person is utterly unable to learn and focus on something; just that their motivations and reasons are all over the place and don't make sense to others. A chaotic person would likely study in very different ways; ways that non-chaotics would percieve as weird or even ineffective and counterproductive, but for the chaotic one, it works out.
Anyway, the racial restrictions are too harsh in my opinion. There are several reasons why most races could pick up any class they want. I do think it is fine to have a few classes per race that are favorable, due to racial traits, or even one or two classes restricted to a certain race. But as it is, I see many combinations that make perfect sense, even if I don't find them appealing to play. For example, why would a dwarf not be able to be a bard? Dwarves draw a lot ideas from Norse mythology - hammers, axes, runes - yet the class kit inspired by Norse mythology - a skald - is not available for them. Maybe it's just me, but I think dwarves would be the race most likely to have skalds rooted in their culture. It's a perfect match to their fighter-oriented class choices. I can also see the logic in having half orc druids. Unlike the mostly accepted half elves, half orcs are usually seen as outcasts who are not accepted by either side. For them, it would be a logical choice to say "screw both humans and orcs, I'll go live in the woods where animals have no prejudice". Or see their mixed heritage as part of a balance.
Still, Xanos, Dorna, and Deekin are all three superlative roleplaying npc's. I wish Dorna and Xanos had made the cut for HotU. Deekin was kind of a no-brainer - he's such a delightful little guy, he even got to be in NWN2. LOL.
Deekin is so popular I'm surprised there isn't a mod to put him in the Baldur's Gate series. =P Kobold Bard yeaaah!
Still, Xanos, Dorna, and Deekin are all three superlative roleplaying npc's. I wish Dorna and Xanos had made the cut for HotU. Deekin was kind of a no-brainer - he's such a delightful little guy, he even got to be in NWN2. LOL.
Deekin is so popular I'm surprised there isn't a mod to put him in the Baldur's Gate series. =P Kobold Bard yeaaah!
Unfortunately I don't think he was alive at the time, but I don't think that's ever stopped modders before.
Comments
@KidCarnival, those are nice, too. The females are especially interesting.
I also think that half-orcs would make good monks, with the strength and constitution bonuses. Second edition doesn't allow it, probably reasoning that their nature is too brutish to succeed at monkish discipline. But that's just racism.
I can take the other side just for discussion purposes, though. Priestly powers are seen to be gifts from specific deities. The spells are signs of the deity's favor. The priest's alignment and disposition will match those of the deity whose favor is being sought. He or she will pray or perform rituals daily as demanded by the deity. Chaotic and/or evil deities will ask their followers to perform daily rituals that might not involve any discipline at all.
For example, you could be pleasing Sharess by having a wild orgy. You might please Tymora by running a carnival tent with lots of games of chance. Perhaps Llira grants spells to those who throw extravagant feasts, revels, and dances, and Waukeen (before she disappeared) might have called the best merchants to her service. Shar and Cyric might want blood sacrifices performed daily, Umberlee might require you to drown someone or something, and Tempus might call you to divine service for your bravery in battle or in competitive sport fighting.
By contrast, monks are seen to be gaining their powers through a very strict regimen of meditation, prayer, and exercise. Their powers don't come directly from the supporting deity through magic, but rather from within themselves. Only certain, usually lawful deities sanction and support monkish discipline among their followers. The BG rules restrict half-orcs from the discipline based on the idea that their disposition opposes monk training.
Again, I don't agree with the restrictions myself. I think they're a bit arbitrary. Most analyses I've read say that Gygax was trying to encourage most players to play humans, and the other races were supposed to be exotic exceptions to the norm, with many disadvantages, such that you'd only ever play one if you wanted to act out a roleplaying idea, as opposed to trying to gain an advantage over being human.
Anyway, the racial restrictions are too harsh in my opinion. There are several reasons why most races could pick up any class they want. I do think it is fine to have a few classes per race that are favorable, due to racial traits, or even one or two classes restricted to a certain race. But as it is, I see many combinations that make perfect sense, even if I don't find them appealing to play. For example, why would a dwarf not be able to be a bard? Dwarves draw a lot ideas from Norse mythology - hammers, axes, runes - yet the class kit inspired by Norse mythology - a skald - is not available for them. Maybe it's just me, but I think dwarves would be the race most likely to have skalds rooted in their culture. It's a perfect match to their fighter-oriented class choices.
I can also see the logic in having half orc druids. Unlike the mostly accepted half elves, half orcs are usually seen as outcasts who are not accepted by either side. For them, it would be a logical choice to say "screw both humans and orcs, I'll go live in the woods where animals have no prejudice". Or see their mixed heritage as part of a balance.
WHAT
THE
****???!???!?!!!!
http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/plaguescarred/62f628fc7a64eb2f7382c2b2c51b6033.jpg?v=189000
http://www.fantasygallery.net/zug/art_4_Half-Orc-Paladin.html#.US9_aKXIalI