Reversible spells

ZanathKariashi

Allow specific spells to be reversible, as in PnP.

Set it up it similar to spell immunity.

As an example. You memorize cure light wounds. When you attempt to cast it, it pops up a selection bar that allows you to select Cure light wounds followed by a target cursor, or inflict light wounds, which begins auto-casting (since it's a touch attack). It otherwise remains the same as now, except you didn't have to choose between them at the time of memorization, which is actually accurate to PnP.

Also raise dead would be reversible to Slay Living. Heal into Harm.

It's basically the same as what 3rd edition did with clerics, except in 2nd edition, it wasn't exclusive to clerics. Some arcane spells were reversible, and druids, paladins, or rangers could as well. Unless a kit or mythos specifically forbade it, any caster with access to a particular spell could reverse it. (this would ALSO apply to some special abilities, such as gained by the Bhaalspawn).

The spell resources would remain largely the same, merely requiring a new core spell named after the beneficial effect to anchor them to, the core reversible spell would simply have descriptions for both effects. This would also free up spell slots that are currently tied up from having to choose between spells that in actual DnD can't be memorized separately.


Arcane Reversible spells (Or spells with multiple options that currently aren't)-

Fire Shield (Cold or Fire)
All summon elemental spells (choice of Ice, Air, Fire, Earth per cast)
Flesh to Stone (Flesh to stone or Stone to Flesh)
Symbol Spell (Death, Fear, or stun)
Imprisionment (Imprisonment or Freedom)

Divine Reversible spells-

All Cure X Wounds spells (Cure X wounds or Inflict X Wounds)
Heal (Heal or Harm)
Raise Dead (Raise dead or Slay Living)
Remove Fear (Remove fear or Scare)
Neutralize Poison (Neutralize Poison or Poison)
All summon elemental spells (As above)
Holy Smite (Holy Smite or Unholy Blight)
Holy Word (Holy Word or Unholy Word)
Greater Restoration (Greater Restoration or Energy Drain)
Resurrection (Resurrection or Destruction)
Symbol (as above)


There were several other spells that either weren't implemented at all or only 1 part was implemented.

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Phyrax

That would be interesting, however 'Spontaneous casting' is not known in AD&D, it's 3rd Ed. However, so is the sorcerer...

ZanathKariashi

@Phyrax
Do I REALLY have to put up scans of my 2nd edition rulebook?....that list of spells I made above is taken directly from the book, and there's actually a bunch more spells then that that, are either not implemented at all or missing one or more effects.

Spontaneous casting is something completely different. You convert ANY memorized spell into a cure or inflict, depending on your alignment, whether you wish to channel positive or negative energy for turning, or deity restrictions. It has nothing to do with reversible spells.

Reversible spells that have 2 different effects possible effects, chosen at the time of casting not memorization, one of which is usually a rough opposite to the original effect. There's also some spells, like the elemental summons or symbol spells that use the same spell, and you chose which version of the spell to use at the time of casting.

TJ_Hooker

@ZanathKariashi is there any disadvantage for casting a spell via reversible spells compared to specifically memorizing that spell?

moopy

@TJ_Hooker

I think the point is that it isn't an option. You don't have the option to memorize both, because they aren't two different spells.

It is ONE spell, that can be cast one of two ways. Choice at time of cast not at time of memorization.

Correct me if I'm wrong @ZanathKariashi

TJ_Hooker

moopy said:

@TJ_Hooker

I think the point is that it isn't an option. You don't have the option to memorize both, because they aren't two different spells.

It is ONE spell, that can be cast one of two ways. Choice at time of cast not at time of memorization.

Correct me if I'm wrong @ZanathKariashi

Yeah, I was kinda wondering this. Like Slow would no longer exist as a spell, other than being able cast it by reversing haste.

ZanathKariashi

Haste and slow aren't reversible, I read that description wrong, but the ones listed above are actually specifically listed as reversible, up in their spell info block.

Their reversed version doesn't technically exist as a separate spell, you memorize the base version (which is usually beneficial) and at the time of casting can decide to cast the reversed version instead.

The only exception is a kit or mythos restriction that specifically excludes using one of form of a reversible spell. Chaos Knights of Talos (his melee oriented mythos cleric) can't cast the beneficial versions of any spell, only the harmful versions.

No currently implemented class or kit has restrictions against reversible spells, even in PnP.

Some spells like the summon elemental or symbol spells, aren't reversible, but you're suppose to choose the type of elemental or symbol the spell creates at the time of casting, rather then having a bunch of separate versions that have to be picked through at the time for memorization and learned separately for each.


I stopped caring about the R/C thing a long time ago...if the developers are too lazy to correct the error, then there's no point in considering it. Anyone who abuses the exploit is only cheating themselves and is completely irrelevant to mine or anyone else's game.

Of late, I simply ignore every cheesy engine exploit that BG2 created, or was left uncorrected for consideration for determining tactics when finding things that would be awesome to be closer to PnP implementations. People that abuse the shoddily implemented system can make even legitimate mechanics broken, so it doesn't matter at all any more.