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As much as I loathe Jaheira, Fighter/Druid is a super multiclass

PugPugPugPug Member Posts: 560
You ultimately get all the spell slots of a pure Druid, plus full plate, weapon specialization, the THAC0 of a pure Fighter, and HLAs from both classes.

If only there were a simple mod to remove the "Yes, oh omnipresent authority figure?"

Of course, you could do it better with CHARNAME's superior stats.
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  • KurumiKurumi Member Posts: 520
    edited January 2013
    PugPug said:


    If only there were a simple mod to remove the "Yes, oh omnipresent authority figure?"

    You don't need a mod.. go to "Options"-"Sounds"-"Character Sounds" and use the button "Never" for "Selection Sounds".. well, and perhaps for "Command Sounds", too ;P !!!
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Member Posts: 242
    Apparently this multiclass shouldn't be able to wear more then leather armor according to D&D rules I've read. It's like the Cleric/Rangers being able to have full access to cleric spells. None the less I don't think it's that bad as Druids spell list is inferior to the Clerics IMO. I always take fighter/X multiclass combos over pure classes as they are superior again IMO. Multi and Dual class is overpowered in the BG series of games. I've heard it is because the rules aren't done properly.
  • FenghoangFenghoang Member Posts: 160
    You forget that she gets Harper's Call, that other druids don't get. That and druids have rapid level progression before level 14.

    Too bad her Wisdom still sucks, and Cleric/Druid HLAs are kind of lackluster in comparison to the other classes.

    @UnknownQuality I'm not overly familiar with D&D rules, but wouldn't Ankheg armor still considered legal, since it's still considered natural (probably Dragon scale too by that logic...)?
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Member Posts: 242
    Fenghoang said:

    You forget that she gets Harper's Call, that other druids don't get. That and druids have rapid level progression before level 14.

    Too bad her Wisdom still sucks, and Cleric/Druid HLAs are kind of lackluster in comparison to the other classes.

    @UnknownQuality I'm not overly familiar with D&D rules, but wouldn't Ankheg armor still considered legal, since it's still considered natural (probably Dragon scale too by that logic...)?

    You are probably correct. From what I've read only medal armor is prevented due to some kind of Druidic belief.
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    edited January 2013
    It does kinda suck that it takes 3 million xp (i.e. over a third of the xp cap) for her to go from druid 14 to 15.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    As Sirrah Quantity attests, 'tis as against Druidism to wear metal armour as 'tis against Clericism to wield pointy things.

    Concerning effectiveness, it must be said that Druids only really work out particularly well in BG 1. In BGII, they sort of peter out at level 12, after which it takes a whopping 450k to hit 13, 750k to hit 14, and 1.5 million to reach level 15.

    This means that with the SoA cap, your Fighter/Druid is looking to end up at level 13/13 - Not even hitting level 7 spells.

    In comparison - And pretend it doesn't completely invalidate the multiclass by having all the cleric and druid spells in the game - you have the Ranger/Cleric. It can still specialise, and it ends up at 13/14 at the end of SoA, meaning you actually have level 7 spells to play with. It also picks up stealth and two pips in Two Weapon Fighting absolutely free, whilst having access to the generally superior cleric spell list (off the top of my head Insect Plague, Iron Skins and Nature's Beauty are generally the only spells worth being a Druid in general, they can't even raise and miss a lot of the best stuff).

    In ToB, the Fighter/Druid ends up at level 24/21, whilst the Ranger/Cleric ends up at 21/25 - Not only does the Ranger cleric get one more HLA, it gets a higher Caster Level (generally useful for dispels only), and still ends up at the same THAC0.

    The Fighter/Druid in the end doesn't pick up every spell a pure druid does, at level 21 they snag: 9/9/9/9/8/6/6. This is their best feature, as they get three level 9 spell slots more than the cleric due to their big boost from 1 level 9 spell to 6 at level 15 (though their caster level is far worse than the Cleric at this point, who has 6 levels on them and twice as many level 9 spells until this point). Note that this is at 6 million, so you're most of the way through ToB before the Druid becomes anything more than a poor man's Fighter/Cleric.

    In short, I'd stick with Jaheira, at least she gets a unique spell to compensate.
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Member Posts: 242
    Pantalion said:

    As Sirrah Quantity attests, 'tis as against Druidism to wear metal armour as 'tis against Clericism to wield pointy things.

    Concerning effectiveness, it must be said that Druids only really work out particularly well in BG 1. In BGII, they sort of peter out at level 12, after which it takes a whopping 450k to hit 13, 750k to hit 14, and 1.5 million to reach level 15.

    This means that with the SoA cap, your Fighter/Druid is looking to end up at level 13/13 - Not even hitting level 7 spells.

    In comparison - And pretend it doesn't completely invalidate the multiclass by having all the cleric and druid spells in the game - you have the Ranger/Cleric. It can still specialise, and it ends up at 13/14 at the end of SoA, meaning you actually have level 7 spells to play with. It also picks up stealth and two pips in Two Weapon Fighting absolutely free, whilst having access to the generally superior cleric spell list (off the top of my head Insect Plague, Iron Skins and Nature's Beauty are generally the only spells worth being a Druid in general, they can't even raise and miss a lot of the best stuff).

    In ToB, the Fighter/Druid ends up at level 24/21, whilst the Ranger/Cleric ends up at 21/25 - Not only does the Ranger cleric get one more HLA, it gets a higher Caster Level (generally useful for dispels only), and still ends up at the same THAC0.

    The Fighter/Druid in the end doesn't pick up every spell a pure druid does, at level 21 they snag: 9/9/9/9/8/6/6. This is their best feature, as they get three level 9 spell slots more than the cleric due to their big boost from 1 level 9 spell to 6 at level 15 (though their caster level is far worse than the Cleric at this point, who has 6 levels on them and twice as many level 9 spells until this point). Note that this is at 6 million, so you're most of the way through ToB before the Druid becomes anything more than a poor man's Fighter/Cleric.

    In short, I'd stick with Jaheira, at least she gets a unique spell to compensate.

    I think there was one advantage of the fighter/druid over the cleric/ranger. I was looking at the spell progression and Druid receives it's maximum spell slots a lot earlier than clerics do. I believe clerics don't finish their spell slot progression until around one level before their maximum. Druids on the other hand gain their all their available spell slots a fair ways before their maximum possible level. According to the charts Druids receive all their spell slots at level 25. Clerics on the other hand don't get them all until level 38. That is the only advantage though besides Druid HLAs.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    The big problem as @TJ_Hooker says is the massive amount of XP needed to get from 14 to 15 as a druid, which is exacerbated by the multiclass XP split. I'm currently running a fighter-druid dual through BG:EE to avoid the second part of that problem.

    I do like Jaheira, partly the class combo but also the questline and character development arc she has. I'm also a sucker for insect plague.
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    I'll take a F/C over a F/D any day of the week.
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Member Posts: 242
    I usually take one fighter/druid and one fighter/cleric in the group. I like to use Jahiera with the sling +5, as a backup healer/tank, and also for the swarm spells which are great against large groups of casters. As mentioned though you could cover all of this with a cleric/ranger or ranger/cleric if you really wanted to. I'd point out that it's possible with the calculations I've done to have a dual class fighter/druid 15/25 or 26 with thac0, max attacks per round for a fighter with grandmastery, and maximum spell slots for a Druid. This isn't possible with a fighter/cleric or a ranger/cleric do to needing more experience to max out spell slots. I still think fighter/cleric and ranger/cleric are better though.
  • PugPugPugPug Member Posts: 560
    Kurumi said:

    PugPug said:


    If only there were a simple mod to remove the "Yes, oh omnipresent authority figure?"

    You don't need a mod.. go to "Options"-"Sounds"-"Character Sounds" and use the button "Never" for "Selection Sounds".. well, and perhaps for "Command Sounds", too ;P !!!
    Only if you don't mind disabling sounds for all characters. :(

    It's something I've pondered looking into, though I've never modded BG before.
  • KurumiKurumi Member Posts: 520
    PugPug said:

    Kurumi said:

    PugPug said:


    If only there were a simple mod to remove the "Yes, oh omnipresent authority figure?"

    You don't need a mod.. go to "Options"-"Sounds"-"Character Sounds" and use the button "Never" for "Selection Sounds".. well, and perhaps for "Command Sounds", too ;P !!!
    Only if you don't mind disabling sounds for all characters. :(

    It's something I've pondered looking into, though I've never modded BG before.
    Ah.. I see.. then I guess the easiest way to achieve that would be to replace the sound files that bother you with "silent" files. Hmmm.. perhaps I will also look into that.. you just want the "...omnipresent..." file removed or something else, too?
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited January 2013
    Only going to address BG:EE for now:

    For me it's always about how do I get the most out of a particular class or or kit. Comparisons are inevitable. But I'm still intent on extracting the best from each of them, irrespective of what other classes may be more powerful.

    For this class combo I look to Jaheira, since I'm much more likely to use her than play one myself.

    With Jaheira in EE I would be looking to have her dual-wield clubs, as she joins with Clubs ++. As for spells, I intend to have her cast (in addition to healing, obviously):

    Armor of Faith
    Doom
    Barkskin
    Call Lightning (if for no better reason than it just looks so cool)
    Miscast Magic
    Rigid Thinking
    Summon Insects
    Call Woodland Beings
    Cloak of Fear (love this spell)
    Defensive Harmony
    Poison

    and I expect to have fun playing her. A lot of fun, in fact.

    Does the Fighter/Cleric have a superior spell selection? Yes, imho. From among all the Fight/____ multis would I prefer a Fighter/Thief or Fighter/Mage? Yup. But does that mean I can't enjoy a Fighter/Druid as a respectable class in it's own right, for what it has to offer? No.

    I do like that I can do something with Jaheira now other than have her wield a scimitar with a shield. Druids aren't supposed to use bladed weapons to begin with. But that was always the best weapon choice for her in the vanilla game. Now with EE there are some new items that make playing a Druid a little sweeter.

    Anyway, I look forward to her dual-wielding clubs. :)
    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • KurumiKurumi Member Posts: 520
    @PugPug.. ok found the correct file and replaced it with a silent wav.. simply unzip this file (JAHER18) into your override folder and you won't hear it anymore :-) !!!
  • PugPugPugPug Member Posts: 560
    Kurumi said:

    @PugPug.. ok found the correct file and replaced it with a silent wav.. simply unzip this file (JAHER18) into your override folder and you won't hear it anymore :-) !!!

    Wahoo, thanks!
  • KortokKortok Member Posts: 165

    I usually take one fighter/druid and one fighter/cleric in the group. I like to use Jahiera with the sling +5, as a backup healer/tank, and also for the swarm spells which are great against large groups of casters. As mentioned though you could cover all of this with a cleric/ranger or ranger/cleric if you really wanted to. I'd point out that it's possible with the calculations I've done to have a dual class fighter/druid 15/25 or 26 with thac0, max attacks per round for a fighter with grandmastery, and maximum spell slots for a Druid. This isn't possible with a fighter/cleric or a ranger/cleric do to needing more experience to max out spell slots. I still think fighter/cleric and ranger/cleric are better though.

    Not sure why you would relegate the best tank in the game to backup tank.
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669
    Kortok said:

    I usually take one fighter/druid and one fighter/cleric in the group. I like to use Jahiera with the sling +5, as a backup healer/tank, and also for the swarm spells which are great against large groups of casters. As mentioned though you could cover all of this with a cleric/ranger or ranger/cleric if you really wanted to. I'd point out that it's possible with the calculations I've done to have a dual class fighter/druid 15/25 or 26 with thac0, max attacks per round for a fighter with grandmastery, and maximum spell slots for a Druid. This isn't possible with a fighter/cleric or a ranger/cleric do to needing more experience to max out spell slots. I still think fighter/cleric and ranger/cleric are better though.

    Not sure why you would relegate the best tank in the game to backup tank.
    @Kortok @UnknownQuantity

    I really enjoy Jaheria but I still tend to give her ++ Staves, ++ Two-Handed Weapon Style and ++Spears over time Vs using her sword and board style. She loses the shield but with a strength boosting item she crits a lot more as an offtank and usually kills things a might faster for it.

    There's a +3 Staff you can buy fairly quicky in BG1, a +4 Staff you can buy nearly at the beginning of the game in BG2, and a +4 staff with an AC bonus you can find a little later down the road...as well as a spear with +10 Piercing damage halfway through BG2.

    Clubs/Scimitars and shields always felt pretty boring Vs that.
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Member Posts: 242
    Kortok said:

    I usually take one fighter/druid and one fighter/cleric in the group. I like to use Jahiera with the sling +5, as a backup healer/tank, and also for the swarm spells which are great against large groups of casters. As mentioned though you could cover all of this with a cleric/ranger or ranger/cleric if you really wanted to. I'd point out that it's possible with the calculations I've done to have a dual class fighter/druid 15/25 or 26 with thac0, max attacks per round for a fighter with grandmastery, and maximum spell slots for a Druid. This isn't possible with a fighter/cleric or a ranger/cleric do to needing more experience to max out spell slots. I still think fighter/cleric and ranger/cleric are better though.

    Not sure why you would relegate the best tank in the game to backup tank.
    I prefer Anomen up front and feel he fits the idea of tank better even though he doesn't have iron skins. Jahiera has a high dex in BG2. I like her with a sling as I feel it fits my image of her as well.
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Member Posts: 242
    Debaser said:

    Kortok said:

    I usually take one fighter/druid and one fighter/cleric in the group. I like to use Jahiera with the sling +5, as a backup healer/tank, and also for the swarm spells which are great against large groups of casters. As mentioned though you could cover all of this with a cleric/ranger or ranger/cleric if you really wanted to. I'd point out that it's possible with the calculations I've done to have a dual class fighter/druid 15/25 or 26 with thac0, max attacks per round for a fighter with grandmastery, and maximum spell slots for a Druid. This isn't possible with a fighter/cleric or a ranger/cleric do to needing more experience to max out spell slots. I still think fighter/cleric and ranger/cleric are better though.

    Not sure why you would relegate the best tank in the game to backup tank.
    @Kortok @UnknownQuantity

    I really enjoy Jaheria but I still tend to give her ++ Staves, ++ Two-Handed Weapon Style and ++Spears over time Vs using her sword and board style. She loses the shield but with a strength boosting item she crits a lot more as an offtank and usually kills things a might faster for it.

    There's a +3 Staff you can buy fairly quicky in BG1, a +4 Staff you can buy nearly at the beginning of the game in BG2, and a +4 staff with an AC bonus you can find a little later down the road...as well as a spear with +10 Piercing damage halfway through BG2.

    Clubs/Scimitars and shields always felt pretty boring Vs that.
    Thats fine with me. I prefer to have a shield for my healers. Many of them have nice effects that protect them and allow them to use counter buffs. Since there is only one gauntlets of dexterity I the shield can also be useful for lowering AC through SoA.
  • MykraMykra Member Posts: 252

    I ♥ Jaheira

    I like the sassy tough girl, and "You're interesing in a 'what in the hell is wrong with you?' way"

    If a tree falls in the forest...I'll kill the bastard what done it.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Jaheira can mature over the course of SOA into a dual-wielding monster. It does take a while, but by TOB she can kick an arse or two with Belm offhand and Spectral brand mainhand.
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669

    Debaser said:

    Kortok said:

    I usually take one fighter/druid and one fighter/cleric in the group. I like to use Jahiera with the sling +5, as a backup healer/tank, and also for the swarm spells which are great against large groups of casters. As mentioned though you could cover all of this with a cleric/ranger or ranger/cleric if you really wanted to. I'd point out that it's possible with the calculations I've done to have a dual class fighter/druid 15/25 or 26 with thac0, max attacks per round for a fighter with grandmastery, and maximum spell slots for a Druid. This isn't possible with a fighter/cleric or a ranger/cleric do to needing more experience to max out spell slots. I still think fighter/cleric and ranger/cleric are better though.

    Not sure why you would relegate the best tank in the game to backup tank.
    @Kortok @UnknownQuantity

    I really enjoy Jaheria but I still tend to give her ++ Staves, ++ Two-Handed Weapon Style and ++Spears over time Vs using her sword and board style. She loses the shield but with a strength boosting item she crits a lot more as an offtank and usually kills things a might faster for it.

    There's a +3 Staff you can buy fairly quicky in BG1, a +4 Staff you can buy nearly at the beginning of the game in BG2, and a +4 staff with an AC bonus you can find a little later down the road...as well as a spear with +10 Piercing damage halfway through BG2.

    Clubs/Scimitars and shields always felt pretty boring Vs that.
    Thats fine with me. I prefer to have a shield for my healers. Many of them have nice effects that protect them and allow them to use counter buffs. Since there is only one gauntlets of dexterity I the shield can also be useful for lowering AC through SoA.
    @UnknownQuantity - The only shields with bonuses I can think of that really are great off the top of my head are the dragon scale one for Fire Resistance...and the one that protects against Beholder Gazes...but there are potions of Mirror eyes for that too.

    *Shrug*

    Am I missing something though with shields? Anything specific you really dig?
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Member Posts: 242
    Debaser said:

    Debaser said:

    Kortok said:

    I usually take one fighter/druid and one fighter/cleric in the group. I like to use Jahiera with the sling +5, as a backup healer/tank, and also for the swarm spells which are great against large groups of casters. As mentioned though you could cover all of this with a cleric/ranger or ranger/cleric if you really wanted to. I'd point out that it's possible with the calculations I've done to have a dual class fighter/druid 15/25 or 26 with thac0, max attacks per round for a fighter with grandmastery, and maximum spell slots for a Druid. This isn't possible with a fighter/cleric or a ranger/cleric do to needing more experience to max out spell slots. I still think fighter/cleric and ranger/cleric are better though.

    Not sure why you would relegate the best tank in the game to backup tank.
    @Kortok @UnknownQuantity

    I really enjoy Jaheria but I still tend to give her ++ Staves, ++ Two-Handed Weapon Style and ++Spears over time Vs using her sword and board style. She loses the shield but with a strength boosting item she crits a lot more as an offtank and usually kills things a might faster for it.

    There's a +3 Staff you can buy fairly quicky in BG1, a +4 Staff you can buy nearly at the beginning of the game in BG2, and a +4 staff with an AC bonus you can find a little later down the road...as well as a spear with +10 Piercing damage halfway through BG2.

    Clubs/Scimitars and shields always felt pretty boring Vs that.
    Thats fine with me. I prefer to have a shield for my healers. Many of them have nice effects that protect them and allow them to use counter buffs. Since there is only one gauntlets of dexterity I the shield can also be useful for lowering AC through SoA.
    @UnknownQuantity - The only shields with bonuses I can think of that really are great off the top of my head are the dragon scale one for Fire Resistance...and the one that protects against Beholder Gazes...but there are potions of Mirror eyes for that too.

    *Shrug*

    Am I missing something though with shields? Anything specific you really dig?
    There is one shield that reflects spells and one that protects from things like confusion, hold, and charm. I think those are the two I used a lot if I recall. If someone cast confusion, hold, or something nasty like that on the party the healer would be able to remove it.
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Member Posts: 242
    I think I actually got that partially wrong. I looked up the items and it was cloak of spell reflection, but there was another shield I liked that reflected missiles. There is also one shield that gives bonus to resistances vs fire/cold/electricity.
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  • MathmickMathmick Member Posts: 326
    Level 7 spells.

    Do you want them at 1.5mil or 3mil?
    Do you want a decent number of them at 3mil or 6mil?

    Those are the two main drawbacks of the Fighter/Druid. Of course, the advantages are all those lovely fighter stats (THAC0, APR, HP, etc.).

    Looking at it from the other perspective, the Fighter/Druid is a slightly less effective Fighter that gets a heap of druid spells as a bonus.
  • KortokKortok Member Posts: 165

    Kortok said:

    I usually take one fighter/druid and one fighter/cleric in the group. I like to use Jahiera with the sling +5, as a backup healer/tank, and also for the swarm spells which are great against large groups of casters. As mentioned though you could cover all of this with a cleric/ranger or ranger/cleric if you really wanted to. I'd point out that it's possible with the calculations I've done to have a dual class fighter/druid 15/25 or 26 with thac0, max attacks per round for a fighter with grandmastery, and maximum spell slots for a Druid. This isn't possible with a fighter/cleric or a ranger/cleric do to needing more experience to max out spell slots. I still think fighter/cleric and ranger/cleric are better though.

    Not sure why you would relegate the best tank in the game to backup tank.
    I prefer Anomen up front and feel he fits the idea of tank better even though he doesn't have iron skins. Jahiera has a high dex in BG2. I like her with a sling as I feel it fits my image of her as well.
    Can't fault you for that. I like to play characters based on my "image" of them as well. She really is the best tank, but I do agree that Anomen looks much more like a front liner.
  • Mathmick said:

    Level 7 spells.

    Do you want them at 1.5mil or 3mil?
    Do you want a decent number of them at 3mil or 6mil?

    Those are the two main drawbacks of the Fighter/Druid. Of course, the advantages are all those lovely fighter stats (THAC0, APR, HP, etc.).

    Looking at it from the other perspective, the Fighter/Druid is a slightly less effective Fighter that gets a heap of druid spells as a bonus.

    The question is, are there any level 7 Druid spells powerful enough to be worth sacrificing Fighter abilities to get to faster?

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