Need a last member for Alter Party

GaNoN

Well i made a new alter game because i really wanted to try a multiclass CHARNAM.
My party is this one:

CHARNAME: Priest/Ranger (2weap mace/wh )
Minsc: Gona 2weap him to Scimitars
Dorn: 2h
Neera: my sexy mage
Coran: Op ranged guy


And for the last member im considering ideas. I dont know if i will lack thief skills
But this would be candidates:

-->Imoen Dualed asap when she has 100 Trap find.
--> Montaron 100 Trap find
--> Kagain fully tanked i guess.
--> Shar-teel
--> Kivan ( Why not :P)

I rly cant decide and i have no idea if coran will be enough as 1 party "thief"

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

DinsdalePiranha

Coran is good enough as a thief, just get him early (translation: level 3, so rush through the early parts, don't wander off and go exploring), and give him some potions of perception (you can buy 'em near Durlag's Tower) so he can actually detect traps till he gets that skill high enough. or, y'know, shadowkeeper.

as for a final char... you're VERY melee heavy (imho more than 2 melee chars is a waste), so I'd go with... Edwin, because he's awesome. just get the useless invoker first with Minsc, recruit Edwin, then send Dynaheir to dickpunch an ankheg.

but to be honest, I'd probably kick Minsc the hell out, and get Monty+Xzar, it would cover nearly every weakness (2 mages, backstabbing or traps - only one cleric, but nobody's perfect), and Monty can easily be used as a slinger, thus having the "optimal" number of melee chars. also, that party is entertaining as hell.

Fardragon

Minsc, Dorn, and a melee CHARNAME certainly looks too melee heavy to me. Minsc and Dorn are pretty much good and evil alter-egos of each other anyway.

Stargazer5781

Your party's very solid, you have no holes. Play someone you think you'd never otherwise play.

Wilbur

Deleted.

Madhax

@ Bhaaldog. Spoilers, much? This is the Newbie forums.

On topic: Ditch Minsc, you'll need to get him to level 6 before dual-wielding Scimitars makes sense, and you won't want to share your PC's maces with him. Plus you'd have to cheese it to have Minsc without Dynaheir.

Depending on how you play your PC, he may or may not be suitable as the party's tank. That'll decide for you whether or not to pick up Kagain. Otherwise, Coran is probably sufficient for thief support moves (unlesss you build him as a backstabber, and you can keep Imoen until then. Might as well keep Imoen the whole time and dual her to mage...

GaNoN

DinsdalePiranha said:

Coran is good enough as a thief, just get him early (translation: level 3, so rush through the early parts, don't wander off and go exploring), and give him some potions of perception (you can buy 'em near Durlag's Tower) so he can actually detect traps till he gets that skill high enough. or, y'know, shadowkeeper.

as for a final char... you're VERY melee heavy (imho more than 2 melee chars is a waste), so I'd go with... Edwin, because he's awesome. just get the useless invoker first with Minsc, recruit Edwin, then send Dynaheir to dickpunch an ankheg.

but to be honest, I'd probably kick Minsc the hell out, and get Monty+Xzar, it would cover nearly every weakness (2 mages, backstabbing or traps - only one cleric, but nobody's perfect), and Monty can easily be used as a slinger, thus having the "optimal" number of melee chars. also, that party is entertaining as hell.

Why do u think more than 2 melee chars are a waste?

DinsdalePiranha

@GaNoN: there is only "proper" equipment for two melee chars. two boots of speed, two +1 AC helmets, two full plates (okay, there's a third in Durlag's Tower), two +2 prot items, two gauntlets of weapon expertise, two golden girdles... if you go with more than 2 melee chars, you won't be equip 'em in the way you'd like, even just by not having enough boots of speed for all you're screwing yourself over.

also, two tanks are just the right amount - ranged weapons are really badass in BG1, and two meatshields can easily hold anything back.

Madhax

Hell, I don't even like having more than one true "tank". Of course, my definition of a "tank" is a badass warrior-type with a shield, but many other classes are capable of tanking. Still, @DinsdalePiranha has a point that there is only so much equipment to spread around. To use an extreme example, a party of six fighters would never be able to find enough good gear to be effective.

My view on the melee vs. ranged balance comes from a different angle: I find straight-up melee types to be boring. Kagain is an extremely effective tank with the right gear, but he's a one-trick pony. You point him at the baddy who you don't want chewing on your mages, and he attacks it. That's all he's capable of. Even Dorn only has a handful of special abilities, and is otherwise a simple beat-stick. Casters bring much more diversity to a party, and allow for deeper tactical planning in combat. Having 3-4 of your party capable of arcane or divine magic allows for combinations and interesting strategies, and in my opinion much more rewarding play.

GaNoN

Madhax said:

Hell, I don't even like having more than one true "tank". Of course, my definition of a "tank" is a badass warrior-type with a shield, but many other classes are capable of tanking. Still, @DinsdalePiranha has a point that there is only so much equipment to spread around. To use an extreme example, a party of six fighters would never be able to find enough good gear to be effective.

My view on the melee vs. ranged balance comes from a different angle: I find straight-up melee types to be boring. Kagain is an extremely effective tank with the right gear, but he's a one-trick pony. You point him at the baddy who you don't want chewing on your mages, and he attacks it. That's all he's capable of. Even Dorn only has a handful of special abilities, and is otherwise a simple beat-stick. Casters bring much more diversity to a party, and allow for deeper tactical planning in combat. Having 3-4 of your party capable of arcane or divine magic allows for combinations and interesting strategies, and in my opinion much more rewarding play.

i understand. I was thinking about three options now, after reading all the comments:

Dualing and keeping imoen or Dualing Shar-teel to a thief and use her as Ranged & back stabber.

Another option would be go for an other pure caster like xan.

DinsdalePiranha

no need to keep Shar-Teel ranged (mostly cos she's not too good at it), if you get her, use her as a melee character, she actually start with two weapon fighting, and (despite the fucked-up proficiencies if you don't shadowkeeper it) she's quite good at it... as for HP (because she sucks at that department), don't worry about it... she'll get hit once in a leap year with her dex, and hp is a nonissue as far as characters can survive the current battle - this is why we have clerics.

GaNoN

DinsdalePiranha said:

no need to keep Shar-Teel ranged (mostly cos she's not too good at it), if you get her, use her as a melee character, she actually start with two weapon fighting, and (despite the fucked-up proficiencies if you don't shadowkeeper it) she's quite good at it... as for HP (because she sucks at that department), don't worry about it... she'll get hit once in a leap year with her dex, and hp is a nonissue as far as characters can survive the current battle - this is why we have clerics.

But would be good to dual her at lvl 6-7?

DinsdalePiranha

@GaNoN: no, dual at 3. you gain next to nothing by dualing at higher levels, except buttloads of downtime.

satyrion

Kivian - Because 2 good archers gets really useful later and will destory everything in their way.

GaNoN

DinsdalePiranha said:

@GaNoN: no, dual at 3. you gain next to nothing by dualing at higher levels, except buttloads of downtime.

but i cant achieve grandmastery if i do so.

GaNoN

satyrion said:

Kivian - Because 2 good archers gets really useful later and will destory everything in their way.

Wouldnt shar-teel be as good as kivan with a bow?

they have same dex

KidCarnival

No. Look at their weapon proficiencies.

Fardragon

GaNoN said:

satyrion said:

Kivian - Because 2 good archers gets really useful later and will destory everything in their way.

Wouldnt shar-teel be as good as kivan with a bow?

they have same dex

No, Kivan is an elf, +1 Thac0. Shar-teel can't catch up with Kivan's proficiencies until she is level 6 either, unless you edit her.

GaNoN

KidCarnival said:

No. Look at their weapon proficiencies.

Fardragon said:

GaNoN said:

satyrion said:

Kivian - Because 2 good archers gets really useful later and will destory everything in their way.

Wouldnt shar-teel be as good as kivan with a bow?

they have same dex

No, Kivan is an elf, +1 Thac0. Shar-teel can't catch up with Kivan's proficiencies until she is level 6 either, unless you edit her.

ty

DinsdalePiranha

GaNoN said:

DinsdalePiranha said:

@GaNoN: no, dual at 3. you gain next to nothing by dualing at higher levels, except buttloads of downtime.

but i cant achieve grandmastery if i do so.

and you can only reach grandmastery with her if you take her up to lvl 6, dual her to thief, level her up to 3, then wait until she has enough xp for the 7th level, and jump from 3 to 7 in one go, so she gets her fighter skills back at the same time as she gets proficiency points. that's even more downtime, it's just not worth it.

alternatively, just edit her with shadowkeeper, taking one point from short swords, giving it to long swords - pretty much everyone around her agrees that her BGEE profs are a goddamn mess, and that way. she can reach grandmastery.

GaNoN

DinsdalePiranha said:

GaNoN said:

DinsdalePiranha said:

@GaNoN: no, dual at 3. you gain next to nothing by dualing at higher levels, except buttloads of downtime.

but i cant achieve grandmastery if i do so.

and you can only reach grandmastery with her if you take her up to lvl 6, dual her to thief, level her up to 3, then wait until she has enough xp for the 7th level, and jump from 3 to 7 in one go, so she gets her fighter skills back at the same time as she gets proficiency points. that's even more downtime, it's just not worth it.

alternatively, just edit her with shadowkeeper, taking one point from short swords, giving it to long swords - pretty much everyone around her agrees that her BGEE profs are a goddamn mess, and that way. she can reach grandmastery.

The problem with ShadowKeeper is that when u use it it kills dorns new skills.

They just get deleted, or atleast that happend to me last time

Madhax

GaNoN said:

DinsdalePiranha said:

GaNoN said:

DinsdalePiranha said:

@GaNoN: no, dual at 3. you gain next to nothing by dualing at higher levels, except buttloads of downtime.

but i cant achieve grandmastery if i do so.

and you can only reach grandmastery with her if you take her up to lvl 6, dual her to thief, level her up to 3, then wait until she has enough xp for the 7th level, and jump from 3 to 7 in one go, so she gets her fighter skills back at the same time as she gets proficiency points. that's even more downtime, it's just not worth it.

alternatively, just edit her with shadowkeeper, taking one point from short swords, giving it to long swords - pretty much everyone around her agrees that her BGEE profs are a goddamn mess, and that way. she can reach grandmastery.

The problem with ShadowKeeper is that when u use it it kills dorns new skills.

They just get deleted, or atleast that happend to me last time

Never happened to me. Fortunately, Shadowkeeper creates new saves, so you can always repair any damage it does =D

GaNoN

Madhax said:

GaNoN said:

DinsdalePiranha said:

GaNoN said:

DinsdalePiranha said:

@GaNoN: no, dual at 3. you gain next to nothing by dualing at higher levels, except buttloads of downtime.

but i cant achieve grandmastery if i do so.

and you can only reach grandmastery with her if you take her up to lvl 6, dual her to thief, level her up to 3, then wait until she has enough xp for the 7th level, and jump from 3 to 7 in one go, so she gets her fighter skills back at the same time as she gets proficiency points. that's even more downtime, it's just not worth it.

alternatively, just edit her with shadowkeeper, taking one point from short swords, giving it to long swords - pretty much everyone around her agrees that her BGEE profs are a goddamn mess, and that way. she can reach grandmastery.

The problem with ShadowKeeper is that when u use it it kills dorns new skills.

They just get deleted, or atleast that happend to me last time

Never happened to me. Fortunately, Shadowkeeper creates new saves, so you can always repair any damage it does =D

try editing dorn, it gives some kind of error and then new skills blow :S

[Deleted User]

GaNoN said:

Madhax said:

GaNoN said:

DinsdalePiranha said:

GaNoN said:

DinsdalePiranha said:

@GaNoN: no, dual at 3. you gain next to nothing by dualing at higher levels, except buttloads of downtime.

but i cant achieve grandmastery if i do so.

and you can only reach grandmastery with her if you take her up to lvl 6, dual her to thief, level her up to 3, then wait until she has enough xp for the 7th level, and jump from 3 to 7 in one go, so she gets her fighter skills back at the same time as she gets proficiency points. that's even more downtime, it's just not worth it.

alternatively, just edit her with shadowkeeper, taking one point from short swords, giving it to long swords - pretty much everyone around her agrees that her BGEE profs are a goddamn mess, and that way. she can reach grandmastery.

The problem with ShadowKeeper is that when u use it it kills dorns new skills.

They just get deleted, or atleast that happend to me last time

Never happened to me. Fortunately, Shadowkeeper creates new saves, so you can always repair any damage it does =D

try editing dorn, it gives some kind of error and then new skills blow :S

Is you installation directory in Shadowkeeper set to your BG2 install or the BGEE directory? If Shadowkeeper isn't recognizing Dorn's abilities and affect flags, it's probably pointed at the wrong directory and so can't find the kit data.

GaNoN

Kaigen said:

GaNoN said:

Madhax said:

GaNoN said:

DinsdalePiranha said:

GaNoN said:

DinsdalePiranha said:

@GaNoN: no, dual at 3. you gain next to nothing by dualing at higher levels, except buttloads of downtime.

but i cant achieve grandmastery if i do so.

and you can only reach grandmastery with her if you take her up to lvl 6, dual her to thief, level her up to 3, then wait until she has enough xp for the 7th level, and jump from 3 to 7 in one go, so she gets her fighter skills back at the same time as she gets proficiency points. that's even more downtime, it's just not worth it.

alternatively, just edit her with shadowkeeper, taking one point from short swords, giving it to long swords - pretty much everyone around her agrees that her BGEE profs are a goddamn mess, and that way. she can reach grandmastery.

The problem with ShadowKeeper is that when u use it it kills dorns new skills.

They just get deleted, or atleast that happend to me last time

Never happened to me. Fortunately, Shadowkeeper creates new saves, so you can always repair any damage it does =D

try editing dorn, it gives some kind of error and then new skills blow :S

Is you installation directory in Shadowkeeper set to your BG2 install or the BGEE directory? If Shadowkeeper isn't recognizing Dorn's abilities and affect flags, it's probably pointed at the wrong directory and so can't find the kit data.

Must be that then. I was muling the saved file from BG:EE to BG2. im using the Steam client and its setup is not the same as u have with ur Beamdog client. so its not that easy to modify :S

KidCarnival

Why do you need to edit Dorn at all? It's about Shar-Teel, isn't it?

GaNoN

KidCarnival said:

Why do you need to edit Dorn at all? It's about Shar-Teel, isn't it?

She but it dsnt matter when i press the arrow --> to search shar-teel Dorn always appears in second place so it gets messed autmatically.

What i had to do is Make my rep 19, let dorn leave, then edit shar-teel and get him back.

that worked for me.

Corvino

Back to the original question - have you considered a multiclass 2-for-1 backup mage/cleric? Quayle is a surprisingly effective extra member. He now has 16 dex so his AC sucks less and he's got a boatload of spells to mess around with.

With Cleric and Mage equipment options he can also use a lot of gear (Wand of the Heavens and/or Summoning, Paralysation, Fireball, you name it), and acts a very good debuffer. He can in 3 rounds cast Greater Malison, Doom, Glitterdust and then the debuff spell of your choice more-or-less guaranteeing it'll work.

This also frees up other party members spell slots. Your Cleric/Ranger could now use all those nice self-buffs and not have to worry about dispels/heals etc. Neera could become the fireball-chucking engine of destruction could be etc.

GaNoN

Corvino said:

Back to the original question - have you considered a multiclass 2-for-1 backup mage/cleric? Quayle is a surprisingly effective extra member. He now has 16 dex so his AC sucks less and he's got a boatload of spells to mess around with.

With Cleric and Mage equipment options he can also use a lot of gear (Wand of the Heavens and/or Summoning, Paralysation, Fireball, you name it), and acts a very good debuffer. He can in 3 rounds cast Greater Malison, Doom, Glitterdust and then the debuff spell of your choice more-or-less guaranteeing it'll work.

This also frees up other party members spell slots. Your Cleric/Ranger could now use all those nice self-buffs and not have to worry about dispels/heals etc. Neera could become the fireball-chucking engine of destruction could be etc.

I took Shar-teel, dualed her to thief at lvl 6. im gona jump from lvl 3 to 7 to get more pips.

Im farming atm to lvl her before taking the tower map.

Whats the best lvl for the tower map? (i heard its hard)

Madhax

GaNoN said:

Corvino said:

Back to the original question - have you considered a multiclass 2-for-1 backup mage/cleric? Quayle is a surprisingly effective extra member. He now has 16 dex so his AC sucks less and he's got a boatload of spells to mess around with.

With Cleric and Mage equipment options he can also use a lot of gear (Wand of the Heavens and/or Summoning, Paralysation, Fireball, you name it), and acts a very good debuffer. He can in 3 rounds cast Greater Malison, Doom, Glitterdust and then the debuff spell of your choice more-or-less guaranteeing it'll work.

This also frees up other party members spell slots. Your Cleric/Ranger could now use all those nice self-buffs and not have to worry about dispels/heals etc. Neera could become the fireball-chucking engine of destruction could be etc.

I took Shar-teel, dualed her to thief at lvl 6. im gona jump from lvl 3 to 7 to get more pips.

Im farming atm to lvl her before taking the tower map.

Whats the best lvl for the tower map? (i heard its hard)

You mean Durlag's Tower?

I'd recommend your party have an average level of at least 5, with a thief at at least 80-90 trap-disarming, as you can find potions within the dungeon to boost the skill to 100. Higher can't hurt. There's no shame in turning away from the boss of the game to go tackle TotSC content, as some of the expansion fights are arguably more difficult than the final boss of the game.