Chill Touch actually quite good!

Oxford_Guy

Chill Touch often seems to get written off, but I've found out it actually doesn't seem too shabby in practise- it seems to give +5 to hit (from your base THAC0), does 1-3 fist damage (not sure if this is adjusted by strength) and what I think is 1-8 magic cold damage, which despite what the description says does *not* seem to require a save (though some enemies e.g. skeletons are immune to this effect), only the -2 THAC0 affect seems to require a save (which only those affected by the cold damage need to make). It last a turn (which I think is 6 rounds?), which is reasonably long.

For Bard or mage multiclass this looks potentially actually quite useful!

Wanderon

I was always concerned that most mage types (excluding FM and a melee focused bard) are:

1) Better off staying out of melee range

2) Not all that likely to actually hit anything that faces them in melee

Do you find the +5 to hit really enough to make it likely for a mage to hit with this spell effect?

bigdogchris

chillt.itm says damage type Cold 1 d8 (no save). THAC0 -2 says Save vs Spell, though.

the_spyder

While it might be OK, as Wanderon indicates, what mage is going to prefer to get into hand -to-hand combat when they can instead cast Magic Missile which is automatic hit and at range and have it not limited on who it effects. the damage/effect isn't that much better, and quickly gets swamped at higher levels.

I have the same issue with Larochs (sp?) drain. It is OK as an alternative at low levels, but loses effectiveness over MM almost directly. And if you want to play a necromancer, you either have to understand that you have a less useful and less universal spell over a more useful spell, or you have to powergame and just take MM anyway. really kinda sucks.

Jace

Chill Touch would have been great for Fighter/Mage if the physical fist damage was modified by Strength. As it is, it's just a flat 1d3+1d8 damage. If you compare it to (let's say) a Longsword with 2 pips and 18/91 Strength, you are looking at 1d8+7 damage plus an extra half attack.

Perhaps there is a limited use against very hard-to-hit monsters. I wonder if the -2 THAC0 penalty stacks...

bigdogchris

I think it's a level 1 spell, so the damage is OK for that

Yes, 18/91 str is a lot of damage, but in PnP (where the spell was designed, even though it's not exactly the same as PnP version) you didn't have the insane ability scores, that players roll hundreds of times to get in BG.

Character power in BG, across the board, is very exaggerated over PnP.

Aasimar069

Oxford_Guy said:

Chill Touch often seems to get written off, but I've found out it actually doesn't seem too shabby in practise- it seems to give +5 to hit (from your base THAC0), does 1-3 fist damage (not sure if this is adjusted by strength) and what I think is 1-8 magic cold damage, which despite what the description says does *not* seem to require a save (though some enemies e.g. skeletons are immune to this effect), only the -2 THAC0 affect seems to require a save (which only those affected by the cold damage need to make). It last a turn (which I think is 6 rounds?), which is reasonably long.

For Bard or mage multiclass this looks potentially actually quite useful!

Undead are immune to cold damage since they are dead (no body heat and so on).

Fardragon

It might be more useful if you where a monk...

Ignatius

It is an excellent spell, especially for a solo pure-class mage in the first half of BG1. You just need to buff his AC (which is always easy to do for a mage) and you have an excellent meleer very early on.

There was a poster on the Bioware forums who a while ago won the game (SCS) with a solo sorceress relying almost entirely on melee: buffs + chill touch/polymorph self. Very impressive run.

Oxford_Guy

I've been using it for a low-level Jester with 15 Strength (so don't benefit from any strength to hit/damage bonus, unless using a potion or spell), combined with the Shield spell (and my natural 18 Dex) it can be quite effective.

BTW would Chill Touch actually get an THAC0 bonus from hight strength? Also would it get any to hit and/or damage bonus from the Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise? I assume not in the latter case, but could be wrong. Also I assume what is the case for Chill Touch would be the case for all touch spells, in terms of what things, if any, give bonuses to hit/damage?

mjs

ghoul touch saved my party in the nashkel assassin encounter (neira?)

half my team were either on the verge of death or held/confused, xzar used a ghoul touch scroll and paralysed the bitch!

Lemernis

It's does actually work a bit better in-game than it looks on paper, I agree.

"It last a turn (which I think is 6 rounds?)"

A turn = 10 rounds, or a full minute.

Lemernis

mjs said:

ghoul touch saved my party in the nashkel assassin encounter (neira?)

half my team were either on the verge of death or held/confused, xzar used a ghoul touch scroll and paralysed the bitch!

Love the effect of Ghoul Touch! I just wish it hit a little more often. Even using a F/M with impressively low THACO I was a bit disappointed that it failed to hit more than I would have liked. Other spells ended up being quite a bit more effective. I was sad to let it go, as prior to EE's release I had envisioned using it a lot for my F/M.

Ignatius

@Oxford_Guy: I have never really used it myself so I cannot answer your various questions about THAC0 bonuses to the fist component of the spell.

Oxford_Guy

Lemernis said:

It's does actually work a bit better in-game than it looks on paper, I agree.

"It last a turn (which I think is 6 rounds?)"

A turn = 10 rounds, or a full minute.

Also the description says it only does the 1-8 damage if a save is failed (which is just not true) and makes no mention of the 1-3 fist damage :-(

Strangely in Near Infinity the damage type is described as "piercing", but am not sure if this is for the fist attack or the cold attack, can't see how it can be for the latter, though

FrozenCells

I find Ghoul Touch is useful on my mage/thief. THAC0 is something like 12/13 at level 5/6 (-2 once I get the strength tome) and haste for two whacks per round gives a good chance to take one or more enemies out of the fight.

syllog

Wanderon said:

I was always concerned that most mage types (excluding FM and a melee focused bard) are:
1) Better off staying out of melee range
2) Not all that likely to actually hit anything that faces them in melee
Do you find the +5 to hit really enough to make it likely for a mage to hit with this spell effect?

Fun Rampages:
Prep: Shield+Blur+Mirror Image+Haste+etc
Mnr Sequencer: Chill Touch + Strength
Cast: Polymorph Self
Change to sword Spider and Cast sequencer

Result: 5 attacks per round at 18/50 strength doing 3-5+1d8+3 damage with a +5 attack bonus (4 for spell 1 for strength) (and maybe you have poison, I'm not sure)

Oh. Thaco not good enough?
Cast web first. You're immune to web. Held creatures are automatically hit.
Wizard? Same thing, but slime - 100% magic resistant.
And if you're playing a mage (i.e. you can know more than 2 lvl 4 spells: you can throw in even more goodness; e.g. stoneskin, II, Fireshield, etc.)

(Inspired by Alastria the transmuting sorceress -- I don't know if that's what she did, all I've seen is her sorcerer's spell list, but making some inferences and knowing she was a melee sorceress I'm assuming she combined sequencer with melee attack spells and polymorphs principally.)


The great thing about 2nd and 3rd edition D&D is how open it is to creative use! I really think that's part of why even a much odler game like this has so much staying power. It's not 'balanced' by forcing players along a few rails. There's room to be creative.

syllog

You could also cast Wraithform and then read a scroll of chill touch.
Worth it for style at the very least