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Ranger kits and studded leather

I know that rangers have stealth... but how come EVERY single ranger kit requires studded leather? I can understand why each kit in particular would use studded leather and nothing higher than that, but... I think my REAL question is: why aren't there any kits that appeal to a ranger who wears chain or plate?

Comments

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Probably because you have to take away something if you're giving them advantages, and armor proficiency is one of the few things that rangers have that isn't hard-coded. ;)
  • moopymoopy Member Posts: 938
    Because only Aragorn can wear chainmail.

    Ranger kits are a bastardization of the pure Ranger class, which is Aragorn incarnate, and thus they don't get to dress as cool.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Take a ranger, make a kit that emphasizes heavy armor, remove his sneaky/agile features like dual-wield and stealth, and what do you have left?

    A paladin.
  • MykraMykra Member Posts: 252
    Madhax said:

    Take a ranger, make a kit that emphasizes heavy armor, remove his sneaky/agile features like dual-wield and stealth, and what do you have left?

    A paladin.

    Good thing we didn't have money riding on that. I was going to say the answer was: Awesome.

    :(
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Or, to put it another way, Light armour is normal for a Rangers. There is a kit for rangers who want to be able to wear heavy armour, it's called Standard Ranger.
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    moopy said:

    Because only Aragorn can wear chainmail.

    Ranger kits are a bastardization of the pure Ranger class, which is Aragorn incarnate, and thus they don't get to dress as cool.

    Can't he wear heavy armor at the end of the return of the king ? ;-)

    Oh wait, has has become a Paladin by dual classing in this book ;-)
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Member Posts: 242
    I always thought a Ranger wearing plate armor was odd. Chain is feasible if it's the sort that allows you to move quietly. What is the point of stealth if you aren't going to use it?

    On a side note I do think chain armor is a bit underused in the game. You mostly only see elvish chain as useful and that's at high levels. Most characters who can wear chain can wear plate just as well.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited January 2013
    Just be glad you can still specialize. All Ranger/Paladin kits are also supposed to lose the ability to specialize as part of their penalty. (technically Rangers and Paladins can't specialize at all, but the GM rules allow single class, unkitted rangers/paladins to specialize)

    (And Fighter kits are supposed to be limited to specialized (**) at max, since GM is a single class, un-kitted Fighter exclusive ability. The only partial exception being the Archer (yeah, it's actually a fighter kit that rangers can also use, just like the Cavalier is actually a fighter kit that paladins can use) and Kensai. Archers can place up to *** in bows (and only bows), * in everything else, and lose all bonus attacks from specialization and levels. But on the other hand, they're supposed to get a bonus attack when using a bow (Bows in PnP cannot normally benefit from any extra attacks), and if they root themselves in position, they can get an additional attack on top of that (for a total of 4) (they can technically wear any armor, but anything over studded leather, besides elven chain, is too restrictive and negates all their bonuses). The Kensai can only place ** in weapons, but choose 1 type of Sword-like weapon they've specialized in at creation as their favored weapon, and gain a free 3rd * in that weapon. And much like the Archer could wear armor if they wanted to, but doing so disables their bonuses, since it they can't move as freely as needed. In both cases, their extra hit/damage and other special abilities only function when equipped with bows or their favored weapon type (Must be wielded in the main hand, for 1 hd weapons, and only applies to that weapon type. So a Kensai focused in Longswords, Dual-wielding a Longsword and Dagger would get his speed facter, hit/damage, and kai damage on attacks from the longsword, but the dagger would only deal normal damage).
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    Lol in all of this I hear alot of "that's just the way it is" as opposed to: "well, here's the reason..." If rangers are more in line with Aragorn (who wore chain) then why isn't there one or a few rangers who can actually wear chain? OR, how come there aren't any "restricted to druid like armors" where they can wear dragon scale and ankheg plate?

    I always thought druids were a bit more restrictive in armors than rangers were. I also figured that maybe there could have been a ranger that was a bit more ideal to tanking than the rangers that are out now. Even more than that though... I bet "well there's the paladin" but I'm sure there are those (like me) who don't like paladin classes and would prefer a ranger because paladin are too goodie goodie and make me want to punch puppies.
  • ZoimosZoimos Member Posts: 81
    what I don't understand is mithril chainmail +4 is over 3 times lighter than studded leather but my stalker still can't wear it :(
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    @Zoimos OMG love stalkers XD
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Everyone always assumes that "heavier" means "weighs more", but it's actually referring to the armor category. Very briefly:

    Light armor refers to Leather, Studded Leather, and Hide armor. Anything with leather in it is light armor.

    Medium armor refers to Chain and Splint mail. You can still move around in it, but it's made mostly out of metal and is more restrictive than light armor.

    Heavy armor is Plate mail and Full Plate. Ankheg armor also falls into this category. These armors might not necessarily weigh more than other armors, but they are in a "heavier" class because of how restrictive they are to movement.

    This should probably be described somewhere, but that's what kits are referring to when they say "heavier than..." It's not about weight; it's about category.

    (You can also tell the categories apart by looking at how they change your animation; Light armors use Armor Level 2, Medium uses Armor Level 3, and Heavy uses Armor Level 4.)
  • UnknownQuantityUnknownQuantity Member Posts: 242

    Just be glad you can still specialize. All Ranger/Paladin kits are also supposed to lose the ability to specialize as part of their penalty. (technically Rangers and Paladins can't specialize at all, but the GM rules allow single class, unkitted rangers/paladins to specialize)

    (And Fighter kits are supposed to be limited to specialized (**) at max, since GM is a single class, un-kitted Fighter exclusive ability. The only partial exception being the Archer (yeah, it's actually a fighter kit that rangers can also use, just like the Cavalier is actually a fighter kit that paladins can use) and Kensai. Archers can place up to *** in bows (and only bows), * in everything else, and lose all bonus attacks from specialization and levels. But on the other hand, they're supposed to get a bonus attack when using a bow (Bows in PnP cannot normally benefit from any extra attacks), and if they root themselves in position, they can get an additional attack on top of that (for a total of 4) (they can technically wear any armor, but anything over studded leather, besides elven chain, is too restrictive and negates all their bonuses). The Kensai can only place ** in weapons, but choose 1 type of Sword-like weapon they've specialized in at creation as their favored weapon, and gain a free 3rd * in that weapon. And much like the Archer could wear armor if they wanted to, but doing so disables their bonuses, since it they can't move as freely as needed. In both cases, their extra hit/damage and other special abilities only function when equipped with bows or their favored weapon type (Must be wielded in the main hand, for 1 hd weapons, and only applies to that weapon type. So a Kensai focused in Longswords, Dual-wielding a Longsword and Dagger would get his speed facter, hit/damage, and kai damage on attacks from the longsword, but the dagger would only deal normal damage).

    Fighters/Rangers/Paladins must be fairly weak in PnP if they can't specialize or get grandmastery. I already feel the Ranger is a weak class in Baldur's Gate. It's even worse in BG2 as Mages/Priests really start to gain a huge edge power wise. It would hurt to lose out on an extra 1/2 or extra 1 attack per round. In hindsight it's not to bad I guess as their thac0 would still be better.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    In 2nd edition PnP everything is weak apart from clerics.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    They still get extra attacks 1/2 attacks at 7 and 13. And the fighter kits would still get a half attack from specialization for a total of 2.5 at 13.

    Keep in mind, aside from dual-wielding which only warriors and rogues can even do, only warriors get extra natural attacks. Everyone else has to depend on weapons with more then one base attack, if they wish to attack more often. That 1 extra attack, and the high amount of thac0, making it likely for both to hit, is a massive force multiplier.

    And no, they actually aren't weak at all. People have some overblown idea about specialization and grand-mastery, but the fact is, it's not that big a deal. It's icing on the cake, not the cake itself. Just a little perk for melee combatants for their heavy equipment dependance and lack of raw, reality warping power. Using a kit or dual/multiclassing gives further benefits and makes the specialization either because they're specializing in a particular style of combat, or splitting their attention between multiple classes makes further specialization impossible.
  • MathmickMathmick Member Posts: 326
    edited January 2013
    It's justification for them putting a whole heap of nice Leather armour that otherwise won't get used. Only two characters I would stick in Leather are Yoshimo and Valygar. Considering the amount of time and effort they put into making a +3 Studded Leather Factory, it would be wasteful if they didn't restrict more classes to leather. Rangers are the obvious target because they need leather to stealth anyway.

    EDIT: All of this gets overshadowed (pun intended) by a certain scale that pretends to be leather.
  • ChippyChippy Member Posts: 241
    I remember stressing over this issue alot. The main reason being that my stalker always looked like me in my short red school PE shorts when I was twelve; no matter what leather armour my PC wore and with the added bonus of a big clunky helmet that needed to be worn for safety. I would have taken any ac penalty to wear chain.
  • DrHappyAngryDrHappyAngry Member Posts: 1,577
    I think in PNP they also lost their ability to dual wield wearing heavier than studded leather. I want to say there were some other perks they lost too. It's been a long time since I played PnP, and the rule set I had was 2.0, but If I remember right generic rangers got pretty gimped in heavier armor. It seems like an attempt to mirror that to a degree, since it was easier than making the game remove the free points in 2 weapon fighting when heavier armor got equipped.
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