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Know Alignment/Detect Evil option during dialogue

It's nearly useless by now for me, but one of the things that seriously bugged me during my first playthrough was all the times an NPC would rush to me and lock me into a dialogue where I'd clearly have to end up supporting or attacking them, I'd have a priest with Know Alignment, but be completely unable to make use of it in the game situations where it would actually be useful.

I mean, nobody other than role-players who don't quicksave/reload all the time are going to waste a slot on these spells, but given how often NPCs beeline for you to engage dialogue, it would be really cool if these spells served at least a little purpose.

Comments

  • SirK8SirK8 Member Posts: 527
    I would like this feature as well, especially when playing a paladin
    Oxford_Guy
  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    There's a quest in BG2 where an NPC talks to you, ends conversation (to allow you to cast Detect Evil), and then you resume conversation with the NPC once you know if you can trust them.

    It's part of the Paladin's stronghold quest line. It's literally the only place in the game's conversation trees where you have the option to use this class feature, and the implementation is clunky as hell.

    Adding a smoother way to use this spell / class feature would be very nice.


    IIRC in IWD / IWD2 they just assume if the Paladin is talking, he ferrets out evil easily, and the dialog choices don't allow much latitude for deceptive NPCs to hide their evilness. That's not an option for BGEE or BG2EE because of the massive dialog trees which would need to be re-written, but it's a choice for modders.
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  • SirK8SirK8 Member Posts: 527
    @Bhaaldog - yeah as a paladin I do that to, or try to cast it before I initiate dialogue, I even used it in an RP way when recruiting party members. However, sometimes dialogue is sprung on you and you're not fast enough. Allowing you to cast the spell and get the result before selecting a dialogue option would be a nice feature, same goes with the know alignment spell
  • PhyraxPhyrax Member Posts: 198
    I agree! This would definitively add/improve role-playing options!
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    It would be nice, but the rush to talk thing makes it inconvenient to implement, no?
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,867
    edited February 2013
    Well the problem is...it's easy to foil for high level mages or very wealthy nobles, especially for someone like Firkraag, so it would only be useful against mooks.

    Paladin are technically supposed to be able to detect evil at will, and are actually obligated to do it to all the members of a party before hiring or joining their group and before attacking enemies (they're required to try and end a situation amiably if at all possible or fall, if the enemy is good, going so far as to switch sides if his current employers are obviously in the wrong). It's a MAJOR violation and instant falling for a paladin to knowingly work for or with Evil character, except under VERY specific circumstances and is required to immediately seek atonement as soon as possible afterward or permanently fall (Keldorn could accept the help of an evil party in the sewers, but would leave immediately afterward or if they try to leave before finishing the job, to do seek atonement.) (some elements of this are present, as when certain decisions (though not nearly as many as there should be) will cause Keldorn and some other good characters to leave immediately or even turn hostile depending on how some quests and interactions are handled.)

    It should be literally impossible for Ajantis, Keldorn, or a paladin PC to ever employ or be employed with evil characters. I mentioned this in the overhaul alignment request, but paladin PCs who attempt to recruit evil npcs should get an immediate warning the character is evil and chance to change their mind, Falling immediately if they go through with it. Similarly, Paladin NPCs should decline any request for joining if anyone in the immediate party is evil, leave immediately if certain actions taken are particularly evil, the PC turns evil, or tries to recruit an evil party member, who the paladin will immediately out as evil and give the PC a chance to go through with it or not and leaves if they do.
    Post edited by ZanathKariashi on
    [Deleted User]Madhax
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  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Anyone who's played FTL: Faster Than Light knows about the special dialogue/event options available for having certain races in your crew or specialized equipment to handle situations that might otherwise prove disastrous. Something like this implemented into BG would be fantastic.

    Though it's arguably essential to have this ability for a paladin to be roleplayed properly, it wouldn't have to be limited to paladins. A thief being able to pickpocket someone while engaged in conversation with them would be cool, or a bard/mage could be capable of making a lore check or casting identify when some shady merchant is offering to sell them a mystery item.
    SirK8
  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    Madhax said:

    Anyone who's played FTL: Faster Than Light knows about the special dialogue/event options available for having certain races in your crew or specialized equipment to handle situations that might otherwise prove disastrous. Something like this implemented into BG would be fantastic.

    Though it's arguably essential to have this ability for a paladin to be roleplayed properly, it wouldn't have to be limited to paladins. A thief being able to pickpocket someone while engaged in conversation with them would be cool, or a bard/mage could be capable of making a lore check or casting identify when some shady merchant is offering to sell them a mystery item.

    IWD(2) does this, and it works well, but it would be a lot of work to change every BG(2) conversation tree to account for these abilities... and we'd also need some way to consume an uncast spell or spell-like ability use during a conversation. Not sure if that exists in the script engine.
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Nifft said:

    Madhax said:

    Anyone who's played FTL: Faster Than Light knows about the special dialogue/event options available for having certain races in your crew or specialized equipment to handle situations that might otherwise prove disastrous. Something like this implemented into BG would be fantastic.

    Though it's arguably essential to have this ability for a paladin to be roleplayed properly, it wouldn't have to be limited to paladins. A thief being able to pickpocket someone while engaged in conversation with them would be cool, or a bard/mage could be capable of making a lore check or casting identify when some shady merchant is offering to sell them a mystery item.

    IWD(2) does this, and it works well, but it would be a lot of work to change every BG(2) conversation tree to account for these abilities... and we'd also need some way to consume an uncast spell or spell-like ability use during a conversation. Not sure if that exists in the script engine.
    IWD2 does it a bit, yes. Not casting a spell in dialogue, but there are certainly bonus dialogue options for certain races and classes, as well as with certain levels of diplomacy/intimidate/bluff.

    Consuming a castable spell shouldn't be too big a deal... I mean, Detect Evil isn't exactly a combat spell. Would it be so game-breaking to not expend castings of it when used in dialogue, or to make it usable infinitely per day? I never understood why it was limited at all.
  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    Madhax said:

    IWD2 does it a bit, yes. Not casting a spell in dialogue, but there are certainly bonus dialogue options for certain races and classes, as well as with certain levels of diplomacy/intimidate/bluff.

    Yep. IWD2 just flat-out removes the spell from the Paladin's daily perks, and uses dialog choices instead. IMHO it works better than what BG(2) did.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,867
    edited February 2013
    Actually, paladins are supposed to be able to cast it at will. The current implementation is due to a possible engine limitation (which may or may not be necessary...trying to think if making an infinite use abilities is possible...or you could just give them 65535 charges per day like Algernon's cloak had pre-nerf) (It currently give you 10 castings of Detect evil +1 more per level...you end up with like 40 something or so per day near the end of ToB).

    So letting them use it for free during dialogs wouldn't technically be an exploit at all.
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