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Original NPC Integrity

recklessheartrecklessheart Member Posts: 692
edited July 2012 in Archive (Feature Requests)
This worry is one I've had since BG:EE was first announced. Because Overhaul has many more resources available to them now to create new NPCs, I am anxious that old NPCs will become overshadowed by greater attention to the new ones. A lack of voice acting, interactivity and side-quests for the original NPCs contrasting with excessive detail on new, 'shiny' NPCs, would be disappointing, as it would feel very much so like an interruption of the integrity of the original game.

Does anybody else agree with this? Disagree at your leisure as well! I just thought I might ask to see if anybody else is worried that the 'enhancements' of BG:EE might seem less-than-fluidly inserted.
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Comments

  • Space_hamsterSpace_hamster Member Posts: 950
    The game already has hundreds of NPCs, a couple new one's isn't going to drastically change the game world.
  • recklessheartrecklessheart Member Posts: 692
    I meant in regards to NPCs that would join the party. Are they not adding any new ones?
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    They're adding at least one new NPC to BGEE.
  • ElectricMonkElectricMonk Member Posts: 599
    As @Tanthalas said, they're adding at least one, although it seems that it might be just one, we can't really be sure. As for the other NPCs, I think their integrity will be untarnished by the new NPC(s). The old NPCs are well written, and will also be getting new dialogue, etc. for the new adventures in the new areas, I doubt that they will be overshadowed. The guys over at Overhaul seem to be paying special attention to balancing the old with the new and making sure that there aren't too many contrasts between them.
  • HiddenEntropyHiddenEntropy Member Posts: 3
    Not all the original NPC's got fair treatment, though. I'm hoping they can fix that. For instance, Jaheira easily got the longest, most detailed quests and romance, whereas Imoen barely speaks after she's been recruited.

    I would hate for Imoen and the like to miss out on more developement because this new NPC we're promised took up too much of the writers' attention.
  • ElectricMonkElectricMonk Member Posts: 599
    @HiddenEntropy You shouldn't expect much new content for old NPCs. According to the team, the old NPCs are only getting new dialogue, etc. in the new areas accompanying the new adventures. This is due primarily to a part of the licensing agreement concerning not changing original content. As I understand it, there is no chance of new dialogue from the original Bioware NPCs outside of the new adventures.

    As for the content that will be added for the old NPCs (in the new adventures), a quick look at the lead writer's twitter account will reveal that he is actively adding this content on a regular basis.
  • HiddenEntropyHiddenEntropy Member Posts: 3
    Aaaaaaaaah... darn :(
  • ElectricMonkElectricMonk Member Posts: 599
    Aaaaaaaaah... darn :(
    Well, it's not all that bad. I mean, the NPCs are already great as they are, and changing them too much would potentially hurt some of them more than helping them. I agree that in a few cases added dialogues would go a long way, but there will always be banter, friendship, and romance mods for these purposes if it's important enough for you. On the bright side, Baldur's Gate is already great, so not changing things like dialogue will just end up with great dialogue, even if it is a bit disappointing that the team is restricted in what they can do.

    I'm confident that the final product will be great.
  • Dragonfolk2000Dragonfolk2000 Member Posts: 388
    I dunno. Imoen, Valygar, and Jan did get gyped. What is needed is that the characters who do not have much (Minsc, Valyar, Imoen, and most of the BG1 NPCs) should have more added in and the characters with whom we were left hanging (Jan, Nalia, most of the BG1 NPCs) should have their individual plot hooks ended. Am I the only person who wanted to see an ending to Nalia's and Jan's personal quests?
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    @Dragonfolk2000 there are a couple of mods out there that seek to tie up some of the loose end quests. Unfinished Business was the name of the mod, and there's a version for BG1 & 2.

    Can't remember which modsite it was on, but if you search around gibberlings 3, pocket plane group etc or just google it you can find it.
  • NeoDragonNeoDragon Member Posts: 169

    Well, it's not all that bad. I mean, the NPCs are already great as they are, and changing them too much would potentially hurt some of them more than helping them.
    I can only partially agree on that. It's true that when adding or changing dialogue lines you have to be VERY careful in regard to inconsistencies and/or in regard to the 'feeling' of the character. But apart from that especially BG1 would benefit from more party interactions in my opinion.
  • Space_hamsterSpace_hamster Member Posts: 950
    Jeez I don't want BG turning into a text adventure, it is a D&D hackn'slash game after all. ;)
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    I dunno. Imoen, Valygar, and Jan did get gyped
    ..."Gyped?"

  • recklessheartrecklessheart Member Posts: 692
    I'm inclined to concede to some of the previous comments made. There was definate imbalance - particularly in BG2 - when you compare the likes of Jaheira and Valygar. One of the biggest pities for me was that Nalia got severely shunted. Though she does say very little in ToB, the things she says suggested that originally there would be the possibility of turning her alignment Neutral or Evil. I felt this was a greater disappointment than the cliffhanger ending to De'Arnise Keep, as it was quite a generous sidequest anyway, I felt.

    BG1 lacked a great deal of dialogue for additional party members, I agree with @NeoDragon regarding that. Also, BG1 lacked voice-overs for the characters. This doesn't bother me so much; it's unrealistic to expect that the original voice actors could be recruited again. Even so, if the new character is fully voiced, he/she is surely going to feel more fleshed out than the others? Or in some way partial to special treatment?

    I'm very eager for BG:EE, my only worry is that the additional content will feel very wedged in and out of sync with the integrity of the old, and NPC attention is at the forefront of my mind. I'm enjoying seeing everybody elses interpretations though. I also saw a new portrait floating about the forums somewhere. Where was that found? I couldn't find the source.
  • mch202mch202 Member Posts: 1,455
    edited July 2012
    @recklessheart

    you can find the portrait here:

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/56/portraits/p2

    and @PhillipDaigle avatar :)

    And regarding BG1 npc, What they truely miss is NPC interactions, I dont much care for voice acting.
    Post edited by mch202 on
  • Dragonfolk2000Dragonfolk2000 Member Posts: 388
    I dunno. Imoen, Valygar, and Jan did get gyped
    ..."Gyped?"

    In retrospect Jan had plenty of speaking lines but the cliffhanger he left behind was a bit painful. He may be a gnome, but that doesn't mean that he can't have feelings and a story to follow. A lot of people I talk with consider gnomes a joke and care very little for their individual stories. Jan was the first gnome that I noticed who did have a bit of a story and it wasn't one where everything was one bad pun after another.

    You could say that Imoen didn't need any adjustment since most of BG2SoA was chasing after her (or someone she was with) and that is kinda a background story in itself. Imoen should still have had more lines though, I think enough people have said that.

    I have not had a game where I had Valygar in the party for an extended period of time but from what I have read and heard he had a lot of content cut that was going to be interesting.
  • ElectricMonkElectricMonk Member Posts: 599
    Even so, if the new character is fully voiced, he/she is surely going to feel more fleshed out than the others? Or in some way partial to special treatment?

    I'm very eager for BG:EE, my only worry is that the additional content will feel very wedged in and out of sync with the integrity of the old, and NPC attention is at the forefront of my mind. I'm enjoying seeing everybody elses interpretations though. I also saw a new portrait floating about the forums somewhere. Where was that found? I couldn't find the source.
    Like I mentioned earlier, they are very aware of these issues to the point of having mentioned them themselves several times. It comforts me that they're specifically doing everything in their power to blend the old with the new, and so I doubt that there will be any glaring inconsistencies. New areas are being specifically built with old areas in mind, new NPCs are being created specifically with the old ones in mind, etc. I think that they're smart enough to not have the new NPC have every single line voiced so as to make him stand out from every other NPC. Things like this almost definitely won't be a problem. Will it all be seamless to the point of perfection, probably not; but I'm guessing it will exceed expectations and would take a trained eye to notice the differences (w/out having played the game before).
  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    We promise to work hard to avoid cocking it up!.

    -Trent
    Trent promised not to screw up by overproducing the new NPC.
  • SirBuliwyfSirBuliwyf Member Posts: 137
    More than one? Awesome!
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    While mr. @PhillipDDaigle 's post makes me smile like crazy, maybe he meant NPCs in general, not JOINABLE ones? :/
  • mch202mch202 Member Posts: 1,455
    I doubt it
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    We know at least 1 NPC is coming in BGEE. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the "substantial, paid DLC" featured another new NPC or 2 as well. Bioware did similar things with Kasumi in ME2 - a new NPC and their associated quests as DLC.
  • WolfheartWolfheart Member Posts: 170
    Anyone know if there's any new romance for females (or gay male's)? Straight male's got 3, female's got 1. Females need moar love!
  • SirBuliwyfSirBuliwyf Member Posts: 137
    Well there's no romances in BG1 at all though i don't know if the new NPCs will be available for romance. I seem to recall an Oster tweet saying something about improving the female romance options though you may have to wait until BG2EE for that.....
  • FillaFillasonFillaFillason Member Posts: 110
    @wolfheart? Whats up whit the wanting to play as an gay? Its just plain stupid if you ask me, let the "great" game dragon age have that alone
  • FrozenCellsFrozenCells Member Posts: 385
    FillaFillason said:

    @wolfheart? Whats up whit the wanting to play as an gay? Its just plain stupid if you ask me, let the "great" game dragon age have that alone

    No-one asked you.

    Regarding the topic, it does seem that they're stuck in a bit of a corner...in BG1 there is next to no dialogue for the joinable NPCs. If they are not allowed to add dialogue to existing NPCs barring in new areas, then any new NPC they make will be out of place unless it's similarly somewhat silent. And if it's silent then it's not really all that interesting :p Let's see.


  • FillaFillasonFillaFillason Member Posts: 110
    I totaly agree, they need to make more dialogue to existing npc, but as i rthere isnt any gay dude in the game. In fact, I think that gay people doesnt exist in forgotten realms, I have read alot of books taking place in this world, and I have NEVER read about an gay elf, human or orc when known forgotten realms autors as Weis, Salvadore or Hickman is writing .. hehe :-p



  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @FillaFillason

    Weis and Hickman don't even write FR stuff and there are definitely books that mention gay relationships.
  • FillaFillasonFillaFillason Member Posts: 110
    Hehe, as you mention it, I remeber some who may have been gay,hehe, but not any main char. anyways.
    Don't write FR stuff? But would you not agree that an game based on the storyes of Weis and Hickman would have been an epic setting?
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