Haste+Free Action

talmendel

hey,
this isn't really a bug, but an annoying feature, while equipping the flail of ages+5 it gives the wielder non-detection (edit: correction - it gives free action) which makes that character immune to haste (with the exception of boots of speed which still work).
haste being an awesome combat spell makes this quite irritating, and i usually just dont upgrade the weapon to +5 and keep it as +4.
would like to see it changed in the enhanced edition

CamDawg

The FoA +5 provides free action, which is what (correctly) prevents haste.

moopy

It is still a good point that regardless of where the flaw is, a design flaw definitely exists when almost every player doesn't upgrade a weapon all the way.

Creating a "better" weapon, that no one wants isn't that great of design. There are three real options here.

1) Make free action not prevent haste, as a compromise prevent movement speed but not APR.
2) Remove free action from the FoA+5
3) Have a weapon that people don't upgrade all the way.

3 is what we are currently looking at, which is poor design because no one is fighting without improved haste in ToB. Thus no one is using FoA+5.

talmendel

hehe reading my original post i feel stupid, obviously i meant that FoA gives you free action, not non-detection
my bad, brain worked overtime today

i think that the best solution is changing the free action buff to something else since free action is not such a "must have" ability

TJ_Hooker

talmendel said:

hehe reading my original post i feel stupid, obviously i meant that FoA gives you free action, not non-detection
my bad, brain worked overtime today

i think that the best solution is changing the free action buff to something else since free action is not such a "must have" ability

This isn't a bug though, it's just something working differently than you want it to. You're probably better off just modding it in your own game, which I think would be pretty easy using Near Infinity.

moopy

@TJ_Hooker

Definitely not a bug.

Also definitely a design flaw, if you create a situation where the weaker version of the weapon has more value something is wrong, regardless of what that something is.

Feature request would be better, though nothing is going to come of that because they already clearly have free action how they want it and I doubt they tamper with existing weapons.

NI is a good solution.

TJ_Hooker

@moopy do you actually regularly hear of people who don't upgrade the flail to +5 so as to avoid the Free Action effect? It had never occurred to me. Then again, I think I only ever played through ToB like once or twice, and it was at least 5 years ago.

Montresor_SP

I never cast Haste in ToB. You can find three pairs of Boots of Speed in SoA, another pair from Illasera and two in Saradush, giving you enough for a full party. Plus the set of armor you loot off one of Gromnir's henchmen which also speeds the wearer permanently. :-)

moopy

@Montresor_SP
The boots don't double your APR though. Improved haste does. So if you wan't to get to 10 APR you have to use improved haste.

@TJ_Hooker
Literally anyone that A) Uses FoA and Plans on hitting 10 APR. I've seen it mentioned tons of times on this forum alone. A LOT of people stop at FoA+4. (If someone is reading this that stops at FoA+4 give me an agree or post below)

I've played games and MMOs where people would refuse to upgrade equipment because the older version was somehow "better" and it was always because of an unintended consequence that was a design flaw.

karnor00

Personally I think the FoA +5 is awesome. Free action is a really useful ability which prevents a whole host of nasty debilitating effects.

And by the time I can finally get the +5 upgrade, my fighters are using GWW for 10 attacks/round. It's not like there is really anything else to get for high level abilities - a few uses of hardiness is the only other useful ability. Or a handful of useful spells for multiclass fighters.

Finally I don't really regard the free action as being a design flaw. That's just how the item upgrades - if you don't like it then you are free to stick with the lower level version. I rather like the fact that there isn't always a perfect solution for everyone - makes the choices in the game more interesting.

Lindeblom

I do not really see the problem...if you want to be hasted use another weapon. Free action is a great ability, that it sometimes can limit/harm you doesn't make it less great. Magic resistance is also great, but it also affects good effects (or is that changed?)

Djimmy

karnor00 said:

Finally I don't really regard the free action as being a design flaw. That's just how the item upgrades - if you don't like it then you are free to stick with the lower level version. I rather like the fact that there isn't always a perfect solution for everyone - makes the choices in the game more interesting.

Like Diablo 2. That element of picking gear is awesome. Nothing is perfect against everything and if you want to make a decent build, you have to use your brain.

TJ_Hooker

Lindeblom said:

Magic resistance is also great, but it also affects good effects (or is that changed?)

It only worked like that in vanilla BG1. In BG2, and I'm almost postive BG:EE, friendly spell effects will not be resisted.