1 fast question about weapons and damage

GaNoN

If i have a 1D4 weapon which is +3.

that means it transforms into 4D7 right?

so its 4 dices of 7? or am i wrong, i read some stuff around but i can't seem to concrete with +x dmg weapons.

atcDave

The plus is just points, not dice. So a plus 3 dagger does 4-7 points of damage. It's written 1d4+3.

GaNoN

atcDave said:

The plus is just points, not dice. So a plus 3 dagger does 4-7 points of damage. It's written 1d4+3.

that means the min roll u can get has raised to 4? and the max roll has raised to 7?

Madhax

GaNoN said:

atcDave said:

The plus is just points, not dice. So a plus 3 dagger does 4-7 points of damage. It's written 1d4+3.

that means the min roll u can get has raised to 4? and the max roll has raised to 7?

Yeah. It's a roll of 1-4, plus three. The extra damage from the enchantment isn't modified by how many dice are rolled by the weapon either, so a 2d4 weapon would deal 2-8 damage and a 2d4+3 would deal 5-11.

GaNoN

Madhax said:

GaNoN said:

atcDave said:

The plus is just points, not dice. So a plus 3 dagger does 4-7 points of damage. It's written 1d4+3.

that means the min roll u can get has raised to 4? and the max roll has raised to 7?

Yeah. It's a roll of 1-4, plus three. The extra damage from the enchantment isn't modified by how many dice are rolled by the weapon either, so a 2d4 weapon would deal 2-8 damage and a 2d4+3 would deal 5-11.

so the more dices the weapon has, the better right?

Madhax

GaNoN said:

so the more dices the weapon has, the better right?

That's not an accurate generalization to make, you have to evaluate any given weapon choice yourself. And there are other things to consider than simple damage.

You aren't going to find some 5d10 weapon lying around, for example. Everything is typically only 1-2 dice, and the 2-dice weapons roll smaller dice to compensate. A 2d4 bastard sword deals 2-8 damage which is superior to a 1d8 long sword, but the longsword is typically faster and more commonly well-enchanted. A 1d10 katana is more powerful than a 1d8 longsword, but finding enchanted katanas is much harder than finding any other enchanted weapon.

Overall, you're basically going to have to do the math on the fly. Fortunately, it's very easy math once you understand how everything works.

Illustair

Not necessarily so. 2d6 is better than 1d12; since 2-12 is better than 1-12. But in most cases yes. You just have to do some math, and see which one is better.

GaNoN

Madhax said:

GaNoN said:

so the more dices the weapon has, the better right?

That's not an accurate generalization to make, you have to evaluate any given weapon choice yourself. And there are other things to consider than simple damage.

You aren't going to find some 5d10 weapon lying around, for example. Everything is typically only 1-2 dice, and the 2-dice weapons roll smaller dice to compensate. A 2d4 bastard sword deals 2-8 damage which is superior to a 1d8 long sword, but the longsword is typically faster and more commonly well-enchanted. A 1d10 katana is more powerful than a 1d8 longsword, but finding enchanted katanas is much harder than finding any other enchanted weapon.

Overall, you're basically going to have to do the math on the fly. Fortunately, it's very easy math once you understand how everything works.

well i was testing the speedfactor thing, and i didnt notice much difference :S

Madhax

GaNoN said:

Madhax said:

GaNoN said:

so the more dices the weapon has, the better right?

That's not an accurate generalization to make, you have to evaluate any given weapon choice yourself. And there are other things to consider than simple damage.

You aren't going to find some 5d10 weapon lying around, for example. Everything is typically only 1-2 dice, and the 2-dice weapons roll smaller dice to compensate. A 2d4 bastard sword deals 2-8 damage which is superior to a 1d8 long sword, but the longsword is typically faster and more commonly well-enchanted. A 1d10 katana is more powerful than a 1d8 longsword, but finding enchanted katanas is much harder than finding any other enchanted weapon.

Overall, you're basically going to have to do the math on the fly. Fortunately, it's very easy math once you understand how everything works.

well i was testing the speedfactor thing, and i didnt notice much difference :S

You still get the same number of attacks per round, weapon speed dictates how quickly those attacks occur within the round. A dagger will strike immediately, while swinging a greatsword at 1 APR might take the full round to happen. It's mostly an issue when two warriors with drastically differently weighted weapons go toe-to-toe, or you're trying to interrupt a quick cast from a mage.

It's nowhere near as major a factor as the consideration of how commonly you can find magical weapons of a given type. An unenchanted bastard sword will likely serve you better than a long sword (If you're a class that can wield bastard swords, which many can't), but while there are a few good bastard swords in the game, you'll be tripping over all sorts of longswords the entire time. And magical katanas are practically nonexistent in BG1, and very uncommon in BG2.

althor

You want to look at the average damage...

The math is A x B (+A)/ 2 +modifier...

2d6 +3 = 2x6=12+2=14/2= 7+3 = 10 average damage
1d8 +3 = 1x8=8+1=9/2=3.5+3= 6.5 average damage
1d10 +3 = 1x10=10+1=11/2=5.5+3= 8.5 average damage
1d12+3= 1x12=12+1=13/2=6.5+3= 9.5 average damage
The +3 (modifier) stays constant. You will get the dice roll damge +3 damage.
Then of course speed factors into it.

Illustair

I could be wrong, but my understanding of speed factor in BG is on who gets to hit first should two characters attack each other at the same time. I just ignore. It seems hardly important in BG; attacks per round is your best friend.

GaNoN

@MadHax, i randomly found a +1 katana but it looks like thats the best i will ever find.

Also is there any reason why katanas are so rare? its about a role thing, or just because they are very good weapons?

Flashburn

Basically, the X in XdY is the lowest amount of damage you'll do. Multiply X by Y and you'll get the max damage. So if you had a longsword +3, you add +3 to the result. You'd be doing 1d8+3 damage: 4-11 damage.

Or if you were to cast Horrid Wilting as a level 20 mage, you'd be doing 20d8 damage: 20-160 damage, or 10d8 (10-80) if the enemy saves vs spell.

Madhax

GaNoN said:

@MadHax, i randomly found a +1 katana but it looks like thats the best i will ever find.

Also is there any reason why katanas are so rare? its about a role thing, or just because they are very good weapons?

From what I understand, in Forgotton Realms lore katanas are already essentially perfect weapons, which makes it hard to improve upon them with magic. A +1 katana is the best you'll find in BGEE, though there are some pretty extraordinary katanas in BG2.

But yeah, it's pretty much for balance. They're fast, 1-handed greatswords. There has to be a catch =D

Kilivitz

They are rare mostly for roleplaying reasons. Katanas originate from feudal Japan (as you may know), and in the Forgotten Realms, they come from Kara-Tur, a faraway land that's in a way meant to represent Earth's asian culture in the setting (as well as justify the presence of ninjas, samurais, etc).

In other words, it's an exotic weapon, so logically you wouldn't find too many of those lying around in the Sword Coast.

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Kaltzor

xDy is what will be rolled for damage, +z is what will be added to the roll.

For a 1D4+3, you roll 1 D4 for damage, then add +3 to the result.

Lemernis

Be aware too that sometimes a weapon may confer + for THACO, as well as adding a modifer to damage. THACO means "To Hit Armor Class Zero." Improvement to THACO gives a better chance of hitting the target when the game engine rolls the dice for you and the opponent during an attack round. The "+" to THACO actually lowers your THACO score, which is what is desired (i.e., the lower your THACO score, the better the chance of successfully hitting).

You can think of the damage for a weapon as having a range of possible damage points when you successfully hit. For example, when using a 1d4 +3 weapon for an attack round, a four sided die is rolled to which 3 points are added. So you have a possible 1-4 for the die roll, plus 3 points. The range for possible damage for that weapon is then 4-7.

Lemernis

Illustair said:

I could be wrong, but my understanding of speed factor in BG is on who gets to hit first should two characters attack each other at the same time. I just ignore. It seems hardly important in BG; attacks per round is your best friend.

Yep, There's a section in the manual here on p.21 titled "Combat in Baldur's Gate" that details the attack round, and intiative and speed of weapons and casting time for spells.

I would think that where speed of a weapon probably matters most is when trying to disrupt spellcasting. For example, in this game a dart is hurled much faster (dart +1 has a speed of 1) than an arrow is pulled from the quiver, notched, and aimed (especially the heavier the bow; regular composite longbow has speed of 7).

But also, when slogging it out in melee whichever party lands the blow first in the round should make a difference, I think. Eg, when you're getting 3 attacks per round with a faster weapon, beating the opponent to the punch with those 3 attacks, they're gonna fall much faster for sure.

Mathmick

Damage is determined by a number of dice rolls depending on the item.

XdY means you roll X dice that each have Y sides, and sum up the total for damage.

For example, damage of 2d6 means that you roll 2 6-sided dice, and sum the result for the total damage dealt.

Since an n-sided dice goes from 1 up to n, this means that the damage range for any standard dice roll XdY has a minimum of X, and a maximum of X*Y.
In the example above, the minimum damage is 2, and the maximum damage is 2*6 = 12.

When a direct modifier is appended to the end (e.g. 2d6+5), that number is added directly whatever the result of 2d6 is.
When determining minimum and maximum damage for rolls that have a modifier, just add the modifier to the minimum and maximum values.
In the example above, the minimum damage is 2+5=7, and the maximum damage is 12+5 = 17.

In your 1d4+3 example:

The base minimum damage is 1, and the maximum damage is 4.
With the modifier added, the actual minimum is 1+3=4, and the maximum damage is 4+3=7.

Hope this clears it up.

EDIT: Also remember that any other modifiers directly effect the result as well. For example if you have a +1 damage bonus from strength you'd simply add this to the results of any damage rolls you make.

Kirkor

Generaly, raw damage speaking 2d4 is better than 1d8. Not only because of higher minimum damage, but 2d4 will get middle rolls more often (3-5 damage), and some extreme rolls will be more rare (so getting 1 or 8 roll will be harder).

1d8 on the other hand have all numbers equal chance.

atcDave

GaNoN said:

@MadHax, i randomly found a +1 katana but it looks like thats the best i will ever find.

Also is there any reason why katanas are so rare? its about a role thing, or just because they are very good weapons?

The short answer would be Katanas aren't from around here...

Of course it's an eastern weapon, BG is set in a more western part of the Realms. And realistically Katanas wouldn't fare well in the west. It's a brutally effective first strike weapon, but Katanas are forged very hard, which makes them brittle compared to western weapons, they wouldn't hold up so well under heavy daily usage. There's no game implementation of this at all, except for their rarity.
As a complete aside, that whole difference in weapon design philosophy continued right up to the 20th century, with Japanese weapons (including aircraft and ships) being designed to emphasize a massively effective first strike, and they caused horrific damage to US and British forces for the first six months of World War Two. But they neglect defensive capability (armor, fire suppression and all around durability) to achieve that first strike, and results were predictably not good when western forces were able to absorb the first blow (most spectacularly at Midway and Guadalcanal, it was all downhill for Japan after that).
Sorry, that's my area of primary interest...

Erg

althor said:

You want to look at the average damage...

The math is A x B (+A)/ 2 +modifier...

2d6 +3 = 2x6=12+2=14/2= 7+3 = 10 average damage
1d8 +3 = 1x8=8+1=9/2=3.5+3= 6.5 average damage
1d10 +3 = 1x10=10+1=11/2=5.5+3= 8.5 average damage
1d12+3= 1x12=12+1=13/2=6.5+3= 9.5 average damage
The +3 (modifier) stays constant. You will get the dice roll damge +3 damage.
Then of course speed factors into it.

@althor

The order of the calculations in your examples is correct (although there is a small mistake in the second one, because 9/2=4.5 instead of 3.5), but the brackets are in the wrong position, the right formula is

(A x B + A) / 2 + modifier

Sorry for nitpicking.

Edit: This works too

A x (B + 1) / 2 + modifier