So what's the hype around Jaheira IN BG1 ? (yes in BG1)

Aasimar069

I cannot understand the interest of playing with Jaheira (part the fact she is romanceable in BG2).

She's a good character (for healing spells) at the beginning of the game, but when Viconia, Branwen and above all others Yeslick are available, she becomes completely pointless.

It's a good thing that her stats have been bolstered in BG2 because her BG1 stats are real crap.

So let's face the facts :

- She has an annoying voiceset
- She has poor strength (15 => She'll need the gloves of strength or the new belt).
- she has poor dexterity (14 => She'll need the gloves of dexterity : they are in the same slot as the strength gloves... good thing that new belt...).
- She has poor Wisdom (14 => too low ; no bonus slots).

Good stats : constitution : 17.

I can't see, except the fact she is good looking in BG2 why there''s so much hype around her when other priests, druids, fighter/clerics exist in this game...

EDIT : Corrected her stats in BG1.

iam1

nostalgia.. you find her first in both 1 & 2

Oxford_Guy

Unlike the single-class Clerics she's gets fighter THAC0 progression and extra attacks at level 7 (and beyond), also can specialise in weapons (extra 1/2 attack, +1 THAC0, +2 damage) and can use fighter-specfic potions.

I'm not keen on her myself, though, I find her annoying and miss the Cleric spells that Druids don't get, I prefer Viconia (or even a dualed Xzar) or Branwen (later replacing with Yeslick), depending on alignment.

daven

Calm down TC! Everything will be OK.

Silverstar

Aasimar069 said:

I cannot understand the interest of playing with Jaheira (part the fact she is romanceable in BG2).

She's a good character (for healing spells) at the beginning of the game, but when Viconia, Branwen and above all others Yeslick are available, she becomes completely pointless.

It's a good thing that her stats have been bolstered in BG2 because her BG1 stats are real crap.

So let's face the facts :

- She has an annoying voiceset
- She has poor strength (14 => She'll need the gloves of strength or the new belt).
- she has poor dexterity (15 => She'll need the gloves of dexterity : they are in the same slot as the strength gloves... good thing that new belt...).
- She has poor Wisdom (14 => too low ; no bonus slots).

Good stats : constitution : 17.

I can't see, except the fact she is good looking in BG2 why there''s so much hype around her when other priests, druids, fighter/clerics exist in this game...

Eh. I wouldn't say she needs higher strength and/or dexterity. Personally I wonder what's with the need for min-maxing? Is the game so hard it becomes tricky to play unless you have the most optimal numbers everywhere? No it is not. She performs just fine as healer and fighter, at least for me. Maybe she's dramatically gimped if you play above Core Rules difficulty, but I wouldn't know. *shrug*

I agree that her voice is somewhat annoying, or rather that one spesific selection line she has is, but it's not so horrible it makes her unusable. And while it certainly isn't to my taste, her voice set IS a matter of taste, so stating it is annoying as "fact" isn't right.

All that said, I don't feel she's any more or less important than any other companion you can have along. Personally I tend to have her and Khalid along simply because it's convenient (they're available right off the bat) and they fit nicely in my all-purpose adventurer way of doing things which means doing most quests and thus getting a high reputation. The fact I get them early on also means I can mold them with levelups, picking proficiencies and hp rolls rather than have the game automatically assign those for me, like with so many other companions.

BG has a vast roster of recruitable companions (though I'd like even more, heh) so I can't imagine anyone feels the need to pick Jaheira or anyone else for that matter. If people are still picking her, it's just a matter of taste, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Aasimar069

Yes but with 14 strength and other candidates for the gloves / belt, a faster THAC0 progression is not something that will save her...

Aristillius

She has an interesting personality. And, as indicated, she can hold herself well in a fight. Not all players try to amass the highest relevant stat total when picking NPCs.

Splod

Meh. She's bossy and not that good at being a fighter or a druid. She drags an annoying ass husband with her everywhere she goes too, who's only use is wasting raise dead castings.

Aasimar069

Splod said:

Meh. She's bossy and not that good at being a fighter or a druid. She drags an annoying ass husband with her everywhere she goes too, who's only use is wasting raise dead castings.

So that's the point : she's not good at spell casting AND at fighting ...

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Toffee

IN BG1 entangle was like a fast, wide-radius, 1-shot hold-person. She could also cast cure light wounds. Khalid is much more useful now unless your charname is a warrior.

In short: It's because she's a woman.

Mykra

Aasimar069 said:

So that's the point : she's not good at spell casting AND at fighting ...

Look, I get that you don't like her, but you are selling her way too short. She's a fine fighter and a fine spell caster, and she's paired with one of the top tanks in the game. And yes, people may not like the stutter, but once Khalid gets past level one he becomes a friggin' rock at the front of the party, and I've never had morale problems with him once his HP pushes past 20.

You stick Khalid on a mob, and Jaheira can use the quarterstaff's (quarterstaves?) reach to plunk away without much danger. Or, you just build her with a club/scimitar and shield build and she will quickly and easily reach a deep negative AC rating, coupled with a high base CON score...easily become a sticky tank character herself. Now that there are two amazing strength increasing items, it is child's play to have all your melee with 18+ strength, so the fact her Str score isn't godly means nothing to me. She gets the boons of being a fighter, has access to two of the strongest weapon types in the game, multiple builds, and you get her at the start of the game so you can build her however you want.

She has access to Druid only spells which just get better and better as the levels progress, she has plenty of spells available even though her Wisdom isn't through the roof, can get a ring early on (if you don't pair her up with a pure divine caster, like Viconia or Branwen, which is a legit strategy) which gives her even more casts. So I'm a bit stumped how she can be 'not good' at casting spells when she can heal, crowd control, buff, debuff, summon, and protect perfectly fine.

Khalid and Jaheira have been my only melee with difficulty maxed with SCS/Hard Times/Improved Spawns. In BG:EE, you almost want to handicap the Harpers to give the monsters a chance because they just...do...work.

And not everyone hates her personality, so I wouldn't call it a fact but an opinion. Other than her selection dialogue which is kinda rough, I like the militant Druid 'If a tree falls in the forest...I'll kill the bastard who done it,' attitude.

Aasimar069

Entangle is good I concur ^^

Against Marl, Karlat, and Neira (I used it a long time ago !).

That's all ;-)

I always play with Khalid in my party, but hell no, good thing you can break the pair !

Khalid's stats are too good for letting Jaheira do the spellcasting :-)

Mykra

Aasimar069 said:

That's all ;-)

If that's the only Druid spell you are using you need to branch out, as you are missing on some serious power. Entangle is great even beyond the early game, pushing to almost broken levels if you have a party that can switch to full-ranged during it's duration - which is easy to build. Call Lightning is a powerful spell (Flame Strike at level three?!) that is a pure pity it's limited to outdoor fights. However, when I am outdoors - which is a lot in BG1 - it's memorized. Summon Insects locks down spellcasters so hard that SCS made a point of lowering it's power. CWB's Nymph is one of the best summons in BG1. Miscast Magic, two hold persons, Call Lightning if outdoors, Domination, a party heal...you basically summon in an extra cleric. Ah-mazing.

Aasimar069

Nothing a Cleric can't do, except insect swarm .

High end spell (I might mistake a level 3 and level 5 spell) for Baldur's Gate, the game where mages are a joke.

EDIT : Call Woodland Being is very good, but keeping jaheira and all her drawbacks for this is too much for me.

I'd rather play my own druid / multiclassed or dual-classed.

Mathmick

She's the only Fighter/Druid multiclass. If you want a Fighter/Druid multiclass character then Jaheira is the party member for you.

Mykra

Aasimar069 said:

Nothing a Cleric can't do, except insect swarm .

High end spell (I might mistake a level 3 and level 5 spell) for Baldur's Gate, the game where mages are a joke.

You've never played with the SCS mod, have you?

And a Cleric can't do any of those spells I listed, that's why they are called Druid only. (Not that I'm saying Clerics suck, far from it. I love their Cleric only spells, like Command, Sanc combined with Silence, DUHM, etc..)

Aasimar069

Domination is druid only ?
Hold person ?

I don't have the list available on my eyes.

I haven't played SCS yet -and this is a Fan mod, not the official game (waiting for a BG:EE version) because I was always worried of the fact there might be annoying bugs (my previous version of BG are not in English).

Therefore, in offical BG, mages are a joke. Nobody can argue with that.

I guess that even in SCS, unless they are adding spells to mages that were not available before (and that's cheating for me - even with a mod !), if they don't have protection from normal missile, even with their improved AI, I can pummel them with arrows quite easily.

No stoneskin for mages in Bg1 (otherwise that's cheating also).

Mykra

Domination and Hold person are just a small smattering of abilities the Druid summon can do. The Nymph quite literally is another Cleric the Druid zaps into existence, and if you haven't used it before you really should. As with all the other Druid only spells I listed, because if you are just using Entangle you are using Jaheira at half-speed, and that is just no good.

Yeah, it's clear you haven't played SCS. I don't mean that as an insult, but you have the disdain towards Mages only someone who hasn't played it can have. I won't ruin the surprise for you, but come back to this thread after fighting some on a harder difficulty with SCS installed. You'll sing my tune, just watch. ;P

Aramintai

Aasimar069 said:

I cannot understand the interest of playing with Jaheira (part the fact she is romanceable in BG2).
She's a good character (for healing spells) at the beginning of the game, but when Viconia, Branwen and above all others Yeslick are available, she becomes completely pointless.

The fact that she is romanceable in BG2 should be sufficient enough reason for those who wish to do that to keep her in the party in BG1. As for the other characters:
-they are clerics, not druids
-you usually meet them later in the game, whereas Jaheira is one of the first npcs available. So it's understandable that people can become attached to those npcs whom they had from the start, invested into them and don't want to swap them for some strangers.
-for roleplaying reasons she is more plot relevant, being a friend of Gorion and a Harper

Aasimar069 said:

It's a good thing that her stats have been bolstered in BG2 because her BG1 stats are real crap.

And that is very good reason too - her stats in BG2 are solid.

Aasimar069 said:

So let's face the facts :
- She has an annoying voiceset

From your perspective.

Aasimar069 said:

- She has poor strength (14 => She'll need the gloves of strength or the new belt).

She actually has 15 strength. And she's not your main tank or dps dealer anyway.

Aasimar069 said:

- she has poor dexterity (15 => She'll need the gloves of dexterity : they are in the same slot as the strength gloves... good thing that new belt...).

Gets to 17 in BG2.

Aasimar069 said:

- She has poor Wisdom (14 => too low ; no bonus slots).

Give her a few tomes of Wisdom, you know you don't actually need them for yourself.

Aasimar069 said:

I can't see, except the fact she is good looking in BG2 why there''s so much hype around her when other priests, druids, fighter/clerics exist in this game...

She's a solid character, both combat wise and story wise.

forbjok

There is hype around her?
That's news to me.

Since she isn't romanceable (unless EE changed that - romances didn't originally exist in BG1), I really can't think of any particularly good reason to keep her or Khalid in the long run, as there are far better characters available to fill their roles.

shawne

I've found that Insect Plague makes her invaluable in combat against mages...

Corvino

@shawne I agree completely, which is why I often use her in BG2. Insect Plague isn't available to Jaheira inside the BG:EE XP cap though. She does get summon insects, which is a less OP version though.

Aasimar069

Mykra said:

Domination and Hold person are just a small smattering of abilities the Druid summon can do. The Nymph quite literally is another Cleric the Druid zaps into existence, and if you haven't used it before you really should. As with all the other Druid only spells I listed, because if you are just using Entangle you are using Jaheira at half-speed, and that is just no good.

Yeah, it's clear you haven't played SCS. I don't mean that as an insult, but you have the disdain towards Mages only someone who hasn't played it can have. I won't ruin the surprise for you, but come back to this thread after fighting some on a harder difficulty with SCS installed. You'll sing my tune, just watch. ;P

I'll play SCS with an Inquisitor then ;-)

Aasimar069

Aramintai said:

Aasimar069 said:

I cannot understand the interest of playing with Jaheira (part the fact she is romanceable in BG2).
She's a good character (for healing spells) at the beginning of the game, but when Viconia, Branwen and above all others Yeslick are available, she becomes completely pointless.

The fact that she is romanceable in BG2 should be sufficient enough reason for those who wish to do that to keep her in the party in BG1. As for the other characters:
-they are clerics, not druids
-you usually meet them later in the game, whereas Jaheira is one of the first npcs available. So it's understandable that people can become attached to those npcs whom they had from the start, invested into them and don't want to swap them for some strangers.
-for roleplaying reasons she is more plot relevant, being a friend of Gorion and a Harper

Aasimar069 said:

It's a good thing that her stats have been bolstered in BG2 because her BG1 stats are real crap.

And that is very good reason too - her stats in BG2 are solid.

Aasimar069 said:

So let's face the facts :
- She has an annoying voiceset

From your perspective.

Aasimar069 said:

- She has poor strength (14 => She'll need the gloves of strength or the new belt).

She actually has 15 strength. And she's not your main tank or dps dealer anyway.

Aasimar069 said:

- she has poor dexterity (15 => She'll need the gloves of dexterity : they are in the same slot as the strength gloves... good thing that new belt...).

Gets to 17 in BG2.

Aasimar069 said:

- She has poor Wisdom (14 => too low ; no bonus slots).

Give her a few tomes of Wisdom, you know you don't actually need them for yourself.

Aasimar069 said:

I can't see, except the fact she is good looking in BG2 why there''s so much hype around her when other priests, druids, fighter/clerics exist in this game...

She's a solid character, both combat wise and story wise.

That's why I have added this small precision: "in BG1"


-> "Give her a few tomes of Wisdom, you know you don't actually need them for yourself."

No ! Yeslick needs them ! He'll have more spells / level (and 4th level top of that with 19 in wisdom !)

VittordeVitto

Dude's, if u check the D&D rulebook, 18 str means you are a TOTAL BADASS, having 18 str is very rare and few have this score in the realms.

So stop thinking that everyone has god heritage and min-max scores and play with what you are given.

Calmar

Personally I wonder what's with the need for min-maxing? Is the game so hard it becomes tricky to play unless you have the most optimal numbers everywhere? No it is not. She performs just fine as healer and fighter, at least for me. Maybe she's dramatically gimped if you play above Core Rules difficulty, but I wouldn't know. *shrug*

I guess it's that mindset so often found in pen and paper D&D; people feel their characters are weak if they are not optimised. Guess it's just one playstyle.

To me the rules are made to represent a believable world. I am not excited by the mechanics themselves. In real life, most people are not specialised in performing a limited number of tasks perfectly, too.

I see it this way: Do you use the mechanics to play the game, or do you use the game to play the mechanics?

Aasimar069

I don't care about min/maxing (for the NPC), but giving a smal bonus (ie : 15 in wisdom) is something kind enough.

Concerning why she's so used comes probably from the fact that some players only discovered BG1 after BG2 so they've taken her only because of this.

For me, Minsc is rubbish in BG1, because he's 15 con and 15 dex only. In BG2, with his 16 con and dex, he's already more appealing ;-)

Aramintai

Not everything is about stats, you know.

Aasimar069

In fact all is about stats and dice rolls ^_^

But I clearly see your point ;-)


EDIT : i don't want a Jaheira with maxed stats ;-)

I'd rather have a Jaheira with stats relevant with her class ;-)

No wonder why people are making Xzar a Cleric since he has better wisdom that a NPC supposed to cast divine spells as her main feature.

Xavioria

Personally I like Jaheira's personality AND voice set. Sounds absolutely Russian and I love that accent. If you are referring to that "omniprescent" line, I absolutely love that line. To each his own, but as stated before, opinions are not facts, so please don't throw around the word "fact" unless if it really is a fact. @Mykra you make me want to return to the days where I pick up Jaheira, you really do lmao. The only real beef I have with Jaheira though, is the fact that her wisdom is 14. It's also NOT power gaming that makes me say that, but the fact that she is alot wiser than most of the NPCs in this game, and yet has a 14 that is totally at odds with that (In my opinion anyways). I have no real issues with Jaheira anyways, because I have always prefered druids to clerics, and that ring of holiness works well on her.

Lastly, she doubles as a cleric anyways, because the makers went and gave her raise dead. You don't even need a cleric with Jaheira in your party because she basically fulfills basic cleric and druid rolls.