Started a Shapeshift Druid run...

stygga

And I plan on playing him like a regular druid, the basis being that he knows he has a terrible power in his blood (werewolf form) and refuses to use it. The ability only manifesting itself in extremely tough life threatening battles, and only when his life is directly in danger (never starting a fight in werewolf form). Plan on doing minimal reloads, idk if I want to allow NPCs to resurrect or not.. And will be taking a healthy mix of evil and good NPCs, trying to use a few later on that I've never really used. He's gonna be smacking people upside the head with his quarterstaff, throwing a couple spells, and unlocking the beast within only in the most dire of situations! Sounds somewhat more fun than the runs I keep restarting, here's hoping it'll keep my interest!

stygga

Within ten minutes of recruiting Jaheira and Khalid, Monty and Xzar came to blows with them. Being the balancer of all things in this world, I helped the lightly armored over matched duo and slayed the do gooding harpers. Onward again!

EDIT: In beregost, while clearing out the spiders, what should neera summon in with a nahal's reckless dwoemer sleep? A NABASSU!?!? That's right. I high tailed it out, the Nabassu got stuck on the gate, where my PC proceeded to whack at it with my quarterstaff +1 until it was unsummoned. so far so fun lol!

Itstucktwice

Did BG:EE include the fixed shapeshifter tables? If not I applaud you for running through with a severely gimped class.

stygga

I don't plan on shapeshifting very much anyways, so not a big deal. And the werewolf is very capable fighter, 19 strength, 2 attacks, 8-13 damage, at level one.

Dee

The "no resurrection" thing always kind of bothered me about RP runs. Not on a personal level, but I'm sure there's a way you could revive your companions without it feeling hackneyed.

Maybe you can only revive a companion with a spell cast by someone in your party--a cleric, for instance, or someone using a Rod of Resurrection--and then you have to rest afterward, to address the party coping with the loss and return of their friend.

That would be an interesting self-imposed restriction.

stygga

Having lost Kagain multiple times now (Lol low dex) I've decided not to impose that rule, except maybe on an NPC I only want to use for a short amount of time (someone who doesn't interest me in taking to the end game, such as Neera). But so far it's not bad, kind of fun. I am not reloading for NPC deaths though!

Aasimar069

Can't you give him the gauntlets of dexterity to address this ?

They can be obtained very fast...

Toffee

^Garrick, Eldoth & just about every front-liner also benefit greatly from those bracers.

Oxford_Guy

How are you getting on with not being able to wear *any* armour?

Aranthys

Oxford_Guy said:

How are you getting on with not being able to wear *any* armour?

It's quite easy :
1 - just have the druid stand in the back with a sling
2 - use barkskin (grants AC 4 at level 8+)
3 - use bracers.

Bracers AC7, dex 18 and a ring of AC1 will set your AC to 2. Not *great*, but good enough against low level creatures.

Later on, you can get a +2 ring, Bracers AC6 to set your AC to 0, and when needed you can still morph into a Werewolf

Oxford_Guy

Thanks @Aranthys ! I don't often play Druids, so was wondering...

stygga

I just cleared out the gnoll fortress, so Kagain now has the gauntlets of dexterity and has an ac of -5, hopefully remedying his constant need to be stabbed. My druid is in melee only, not using slings or anything, but he uses quarter staves, keeping his distance, with the occasional spell buff or heal for kagain. He will be more caster focused later on as he advances in levels, I really just wanted to try something that didn't feel over powered, yet had enough versatility to be fun and play multiple ways. So far so good!

SirK8

@Sylvus_Moonbow - You can't become a werebear, but you can summon them, and then kill Drizzt in like 3 seconds. But only if you are playing by real DnD rules and not the nerfed BG rules.

Sylvus_Moonbow said:

I read you can become a Werebear too.

Lapa

I read someplace that this shapeshifter kit is somehow broken and not having all the benefits it should have in werewolf form. Anybody know any mods to bring this kit to its rightfull power level? I just want to start a game with shapeshifter but not having a nerfed version of werewolf...

Itstucktwice

So in case you didn't know, these are the problems with the nerfed werewolf and greater wearwolf:

Werewolf:

You were supposed to get: Base magic resistance 20% - You actually got: Magic resistance locked at 20%
You were supposed to get: Immunity to normal weapons - You actually got: Nothing
You were supposed to get: Paw does 1d12 slashing - You actually got: Paw does 1d6 piercing

Greater Werewolf

You were supposed to get: Thaco of 6 - You actually got: Nothing
You were supposed to get: Saves 1/1/1/2/1 - You actually got: Nothing
You were supposed to get: Base elemental resistance 50% - You actually got: Elemental Res locked at 50%
You were supposed to get: Base magic resistance 40% - You actually got: Magic res locked at 40%
You were supposed to get: Immunity to normal weapons - You actually got: Nothing
You were supposed to get: Paw is a +3 weapon - You actually got: Paw is a +2 weapon
You were supposed to get: Paw does 2d8 slashing - You actually got: Paw does 1d6 piercing
You were supposed to get: Regeneration of 3 hp/sec - You actually got: Nothing

As you can see...pretty bad. Several mods incorporate a fix for it including: Weimer's Ease of Use, and G3's BG2 Tweakpacks. There are probably others but those are the two that come to mind. It is also worth nothing that G3's BG2 Tweakpacks takes the werewolf changes directly from Weimer's Ease of Use mod, so they are the same changes.

Oxford_Guy

Itstucktwice said:

So in case you didn't know, these are the problems with the nerfed werewolf and greater wearwolf:

Werewolf:

You were supposed to get: Base magic resistance 20% - You actually got: Magic resistance locked at 20%
You were supposed to get: Immunity to normal weapons - You actually got: Nothing

Wouldn't immunity to normal weapons be totally OP at level 1?

Itstucktwice

@Oxford_Guy

Yes I imagine it would be. The kit was obviously created with BG2/TOB in mind.

Although the nerfed version of the kit exists as a gimped druid with several drawbacks and no real bonuses, the unnerfed version of the kit would trivialize most of the first game.

Oxford_Guy

Itstucktwice said:

@Oxford_Guy

Yes I imagine it would be. The kit was obviously created with BG2/TOB in mind.

Although the nerfed version of the kit exists as a gimped druid with several drawbacks and no real bonuses, the unnerfed version of the kit would trivialize most of the first game.


Sounds like some sort of compromise might be in order e.g. *partial* resistance to normal weapons - perhaps 25-50% damage reduction, for example, at least for BG1.

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Oxford_Guy

Bhaaldog said:

Oxford_Guy said:

Itstucktwice said:

So in case you didn't know, these are the problems with the nerfed werewolf and greater wearwolf:

Werewolf:

You were supposed to get: Base magic resistance 20% - You actually got: Magic resistance locked at 20%
You were supposed to get: Immunity to normal weapons - You actually got: Nothing

Wouldn't immunity to normal weapons be totally OP at level 1?

Perhaps one way of getting around this would simply be to upgrade the werewolf form as you increased in level so rather than immediately receiving all the benefits at level one you could start of with 5% magic resistance, then 10% at level 5 and so on. Immunity to normal weapons perhaps at level 10?

Yes, that could work, maybe with partial resistance to normal weapons before level 10 too, increasing as you level, maxing at 100% at level 10, if that's possible?

stygga

Or, since I'm pretty sure werewolf lasts as long as you don't transform back into human form (correct me if I'm wrong, because it seems to last a very long time) don't add any drastic bonuses, or everyone would just be walking around in werewolf form. I find that very disconcerting when nobody in Beregost comments when talking to a giant two legged wolf.

Oxford_Guy

stygga said:

Or, since I'm pretty sure werewolf lasts as long as you don't transform back into human form (correct me if I'm wrong, because it seems to last a very long time) don't add any drastic bonuses, or everyone would just be walking around in werewolf form. I find that very disconcerting when nobody in Beregost comments when talking to a giant two legged wolf.

I've been thinking that in a current game where Safana spends much of the time as a wolf due to activating Relair's Mistake for extra strength and speed (great for thieving runs in town, to escape the guards and carry lots of loot)

Anton

Bhaaldog said:

Perhaps one way of getting around this would simply be to upgrade the werewolf form as you increased in level so rather than immediately receiving all the benefits at level one you could start of with 5% magic resistance, then 10% at level 5 and so on. Immunity to normal weapons perhaps at level 10?

Agreed.
Similar request has been posted here: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/5091/kiths-shapeshifter-rework

stygga

I would personally enjoy a major reputation loss when in werewolf form, like say, automatically put you at 4 reputation? Just so you're severely dissuaded from using it in town. Rep goes back to normal once you shift back. That would be cool right?

Aranthys

There's no need to further boost werewolves, because in BG:EE, they benefit from equipped items (That was not the case in BG2)
My werewolf, while shapeshifted, has an unbuffed AC of -6, THAC0 of 9 and has 2APR at 10-15 damage (Crit on 19+)

All that while still keeping its full casting abilities when not shapeshifted.

It's got from "not that good" to "great" thanks to the fact that items now grant bonus to shapeshifted characters.

stygga

I'm thinking of modifying the "rules" of my shapeshifter... IE, I think it'd be cool to only use the ability at night, and never in large cities (nashkel, beregost, baldurs gate etc). Think that would add a level of believability that turns it from just a character to something more realistic.

Corvino

I hadn't heard that Shapeshifters now benefit from gear benefits while shapeshifter. I just tested it and indeed they do. Thanks @Aranthys!

You seem to gain all passive benefits from rings/amulets/cloaks of protection, +save amulets, gauntlets of weapon skill/experise, enchanted helms, +AC and belts. You do not gain a THAC0 bonus from your equipped weapon, and gauntlets of dex/ogre str/big fisted belt do not work.

I've not tested quite a few interesting possibilities though. Kiel's Buckler for additional bonus dex & AC anyone?

Oxford_Guy

Corvino said:

I hadn't heard that Shapeshifters now benefit from gear benefits while shapeshifter. I just tested it and indeed they do. Thanks @Aranthys!

You seem to gain all passive benefits from rings/amulets/cloaks of protection, +save amulets, gauntlets of weapon skill/experise, enchanted helms, +AC and belts. You do not gain a THAC0 bonus from your equipped weapon, and gauntlets of dex/ogre str/big fisted belt do not work.

I've not tested quite a few interesting possibilities though. Kiel's Buckler for additional bonus dex & AC anyone?

Do you gain passive abilities from weapons e.g. the 50% Fire Resistance from Drizzt's Icing Death Scimitar?

Corvino

I've not tested Drizzt's scimitars as I don't have a savegame with them and CBA to console them in. I don't think it would stack with the GWW's innate resist but might work for regular werewolf form.

There aren't many weapon passives in BG1, though this might end up being a big deal in BG2. There are a lot of useful weapon passives in BG2 though - including the staff of the woodlands for a +3 AC bonus and perma-barkskin.

Edit - or the staff of curing for +2AC available very early on.

Aranthys

Oxford_Guy said:

Corvino said:

I hadn't heard that Shapeshifters now benefit from gear benefits while shapeshifter. I just tested it and indeed they do. Thanks @Aranthys!

You seem to gain all passive benefits from rings/amulets/cloaks of protection, +save amulets, gauntlets of weapon skill/experise, enchanted helms, +AC and belts. You do not gain a THAC0 bonus from your equipped weapon, and gauntlets of dex/ogre str/big fisted belt do not work.

I've not tested quite a few interesting possibilities though. Kiel's Buckler for additional bonus dex & AC anyone?

Do you gain passive abilities from weapons e.g. the 50% Fire Resistance from Drizzt's Icing Death Scimitar?

Basically, you get ALL bonus from your items except the boost to your base AC (Armor, bracers of AC X)
You get NO bonus from your weapon, because it gets replaced by the shapeshifted paw.