All-dual-classed party playthrough (SPOILERS!)

Lemernis

There's a lot of spoilers in this post alone, so if you don't want to be spoiled read no further.

I have embarked on a game where I will dual-class every character, just to see what it's like. And it's turning out to be pretty interesting strategically, so I figured I would share.

For reference sake, here is a thread detailing the concept more fullly.

human TN Berserker 3/Cleric dual-wielding maces (including the Stupifier of course)
Imoen - dual to Mage at Thief 2 (needs no tome)
Xzar - dual to Cleric at Necromancer 4 (via Wis tome from Durlag's, upstairs)
Branwen - dual to Thief when I get her to BG city and obtain the Dex tome, so figure around Cleric 5
Shar-Teel - dual to Thief at level 3 (needs no tome)
Safana - dual to mage when I get her to BG city and obtain the Int tome from Ragefast, so figure about Thief 5

There is going to be some metagame strategy here, because I do need the tomes. And there are certain weapons and items that I want for the characters. But outside of that, I plan to play this fairly straight in terms of keeping the party's behavior consistent with what they don't know, in order to increase the challenge.

Monty got killed by the ogre in the Crossroads map. "Poor sod, taking a dirt nap so soon" indeed.

Early on I've had Xzar using Chill Touch and his dagger quite a bit, and he is hilarious. His war cries have literally made me laugh out loud several times, in the context of sending him into melee.

Anyhoo... Xzar pestered the PC to go to Nashkel and investigate the iron shortage, even as the party was completing the Bassilus quest for that badly need 5000 gold. So fine, off we head to Nashkel (with just a slight bit of off road exploration along the way).

And now here I am heading into the mines with Imoen as Mage 1 and Thieving skills deactivated; and the PC at Cleric 1 with Berserker skills deactivated. (Xzar is still a Necromancer and Branwen is still a Cleric.) So as for dealing with traps I guess Branwen can at least detect them. And Imoen or Xzar can use a Knock scroll for chest, in case it's locked (can't recall if it is...) I know I could sidequest to level up and get the PC's and Immy's original class skills back. But I figured let me see how it goes with trying to keep the metagaming at a minimum.

I had put Imoen's Thief level 2 skill points into Locks (40) and Traps (45) in anticipation of the Nashkel mines, but in hindsight I now wish I had put them all into pickpocketing instead. Oh well.

Anyway, I think this is going to be an interesting ride.

Eudaemonium

I used Xzar as my Cleric on a prior playthrough. It was loads of fun. 'I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds!' indeed.

Sounds like a fun playthrough! Good luck with it!

Lemernis

With the deactivation of original class skills it's a bit tricky working out the Thieving skills. Even though I have a lot of Thieves... Imoen (Thief 2/Mage), Branwen (Cleric 5/Thief), Shar-Teel (Fighter 3/Thief), and Safana (Thief 5/Mage)... one of them doesn't have high skill, two change to Thief in Chapter 5, which leaves Shar-Teel to handle most things. But I want to have all the Thieves (other than Imoen) mainly focus on backstabbing skill.

I think I may pass on Durlag's this time around. I dunno, I guess I'll see.

atcDave

Sounds like a very fun play through.

Lemernis

I'm loving it so far. The only downside is it's a bit complicated to maximize every character according to how I'd like to use them...

Like Xzar... I figured if I dual him at Necromancer 4 that'll grant him four level 1 mage spell slots, and three level 2 slots. Which gives him some decent wizard buffs and a few offensive spells. I can live with just level 1 and 2 wizard spells for this class combo. I mainly want to minimize the 'downtime' to get his Necromancer skills back sooner rather than later.

I'm going to have Xzar take advantage of the current unintended bonuses for Chill Touch* (which I love now, please leave as is, lol!) as a meleeing Necromancer/Cleric. I'm looking forward to buffing him with Armor, Armor of Faith, and Barkskin and then seeing how he does with touch spells. Or if I end up going more of a melee route, then those same buffs plus Bless, Chant, Aid, DUHM and wielding the Thresher (flail +2) and a shield. I'm also tempted to try Shillelagh, Flame Blade, and Spiritual Hammer just because I've rarely used them in the past. Here they might be viable.

As for maximizing Shar-Teel... I still have to decide what profs to get the most out her backstabs. I'm unsure yet whether to go for grandmastery in Long sword or a more even distribution of profs.

(Edit: For Shar-Teel I decided to go with:

Long Sword +++
Dagger ++
Two Weapon Style ++

because I want to check how well Shar performs with both Vascona and the Dagger of Venom.)

Safana as a backstabbing Thief/Mage should be interesting. She'll be much more Thief-y than her M/T counterpart Imoen, who in contrast will perform pretty much entirely as a mage. I'm thinking that after Safana backstabs (she'll have the x3 multiplier and will have cast Strength on herself as well) she can follow with spells.

(Edit: She's got locks covered. I hope I can have her take care of Traps as well and still have good enough stealth to stay in shadows for backstabs.)

Branwen as a backstabbing Cleric/Thief should be really interesting. She'll specialize in Quarterstaff.

I think the frontline should be pretty solid.

This is one of these few games where I'll probably be least interested of all in the main character, lol.



* I probably won't install the new patch (once it's released) until this game is finished, if that patch fixes Chill Touch.

Lemernis

What's a bit strange about this game is how I'm normally eager to level-up, yet here I'm making a mad dash to assemble the party and get to BG city before Branwen's and Safana's levels get too high. You level really fast with all these Thieves, Clerics, and Mages. I guess it's okay if I dual them at level 6 instead of 5. But I really wanted to do it sooner to minimize the downtime for getting original skills back.

I went ahead and cleared the bassilisk map when I picked up Shar-Teel, and that may have been a mistake in hindsight. Thing is, it's hard to avoid Korax on the way to Shar-Teel, and he's so useful that I just figured what the heck, let me go ahead and do this map.

I'm really tempted to remove the XP cap. That will work for a game already in progress, right?

ShapiroKeatsDarkMage

Just one question. Does Imoen still has her thieving abilites when she becomes a mage?

stygga

Once she hits a level beyond the original class when dual classing you get all abilities back, so yes.

Lemernis

Yes. When you dual-class any character you get the original class skills back when you reach one level higher in the new class than the original class. So if You dual Imoen to Mage at Thief 2 (as I did) you get her Thief skills back at Mage 3. Etc.

But the original class skills will be deactivated until the new class is one higher than the original class.

Wowo

I was going to do something similar but got stuck on preferring a berserker 7/Druid 9 over the option that you've gone for which is a build that I've already done.

I get the bit about minimizing downtime but on the flip side is Imoen dualed at 2 isn't really a "dual class" but really just a Mage with better weapon proficiencies ... The way I was going to approach it was to try to dual class everyone simultaneously and then hit some big xp areas like basilisk area, sirines, parapets of durlags tower etc to soften those early levels.

If running on core or greater Dynaheir is available as a backup if anyone gets chunked of course which I was quite interested in as it would fit her quite well I thought.

Schneidend

*Goes into a frothing rage.*

Madhax

A guy on some forums I participated in a few years back used to build parties like this all the time in Icewind Dale. He'd start with five fighters and a bard, and wind up with something like this:

Fighter3->Cleric
Fighter7->Mage
Fighter7->Thief
Fighter13->Druid
Fighter13->Mage
Bard

I know that sort of shenanigans isn't the same as what you're rocking, I'm just reminded of it.

Lemernis

Wowo said:

I was going to do something similar but got stuck on preferring a berserker 7/Druid 9 over the option that you've gone for which is a build that I've already done.

I get the bit about minimizing downtime but on the flip side is Imoen dualed at 2 isn't really a "dual class" but really just a Mage with better weapon proficiencies ... The way I was going to approach it was to try to dual class everyone simultaneously and then hit some big xp areas like basilisk area, sirines, parapets of durlags tower etc to soften those early levels.

If running on core or greater Dynaheir is available as a backup if anyone gets chunked of course which I was quite interested in as it would fit her quite well I thought.

Yeah, as for the decision when to dual Imoen, there's a whole lot of Thief action going on in this party already: Shar-Teel, Safana, and Branwen all have Thieving skills as well. So I figured I'd rather maximize her mage skills since Thieving is well taken care of.

I'm probably going to Shadowkeeper Imoen now to reallocate her profs to 60 in Pick Pockets. Instead put her 25 skill points at Thief 2 into Locks and Traps in anticipation of the Nashkel mines, but that turned out to be a waste.

With decent pickpocketing skills Imoen would be rather Bard-like then, as the party's pickpocketer/spellcaster/archer. And indeed, back when I played BGT I often used the Level 1 NPCs mod to change her to a vanilla Bard, which I thought better suited her personality than Thief, or Thief/Mage.

I actually wanted to try Dyna a little more than Safana. But Dyna needs two Wis tomes to become a Cleric. The Wis tome on the third floor of Durlag's was already definitely slated for Xzar. So then one of the two remaining Wis tomes unfortunately doesn't become available until very late in the game (the one in the Candlekeep catacombs, chapter 6). I wouldn't have as much time as I would like to enjoy both class skills with her. (I do plan to play a game at some point that duals Dynaheir, though. The downtime factor notwithstanding.)

Lemernis

Schneidend said:

*Goes into a frothing rage.*

Lol, you're rendered speechless?

I guess it should be said that many (most?) players would dual the characters later than I have. But it depends on what you're looking to get out of them, and the game as a whole. For me, my goal here is to find a sweet spot between a decent mix of class skills and minimizing the so-called 'downtime' waiting to get the original class skills back.

Lemernis

I'm in a bit of a qaundry about when to level Safana to Mage...

The party is now entering Cloakwood. And Safana just got the XP to level to Thief 5.

Whether to dual at Thief 5 or Thief 6

I can't dual-class Safana this until I get her into BG city and obtain the Int tome. I'd been thinking to dual her at Thief 5 because that will get her the backstab multiplier x3, and she is great with lockpicking already. I was thinking that's probably good enough for her Thief-wise. And I'd rather get her Thieving skills back sooner than if I dual her at Thief 6.

However... I do want to get her in on the backstabbing action, along with Branwen and Shar-Teel. And one advantage to dualing her at Thief 6 is that I can give her 25 more points in stealth.

At Thief 4 she has

Move Silently 30
Hide in Shadows 20

At Thief 5 I'll raise that to

Move Silently 35
Hide in Shadows 40.

Then I can equip her with Boots of Stealth which gets her to

Move Silently 55
Hide in Shadows 55.

which, while not exceptional is probably good enough to get the job done for BG:EE... I guess I'm seeking confirmation on that.

If She Duals at Thief 5 and I Delay the Next Level-up Until After Dualing

I'm going to level her up to Thief 5 now. But I may well gain another level by the time I complete Chapter 4. I now have a party of six. Safana would have to acquire another 10,000 XP as the party enters Cloakwood map 2 to hit Thief 6. In BG city there will be also be XP from the Ragefast/Ramizath quest.

If Safana gains the XP to level-up before I get her the Int tome, my plan is to hold off on leveling her until I obtain the Int tome and dual-class her. Then I will level her up in her new Mage class.

Will the XP used for this level-up be applied entirely to the new class (here Mage)?

AHF

You won't gain XP as a mage until she is dual classed so anything above level 5 thief will be lost XP.

Lemernis

Bear with me, just trying to understand... What I'm saying is I will dual-class her when I get the Int tome. And she'll become a Mage then. (And remember, here she could have been leveled to Thief 6 but I deliberately did not.)

So in this scenario, I will have held off from leveling her to Thief 6. The XP that would be stored up from holding off on leveling her to Thief 6 will go poof when I dual her?

Hope that makes sense, lol.

Fardragon

When you dual class, any additional xp you had is lost, yes. It doesn't count against the cap though, so its no big deal.

Lemernis

Thanks, it's been a long time and I rarely dual-class.

Lemernis

Hmm.

Now upon arrival in Baldur's Gate here is the XP for Branwen and Safana:

Branwen - Cleric 5
Experience: 25,798
Next Level: 27,500

Safana - Thief 5
Experience: 18,820
Next Level: 20,000

It's kind of a shame, but if I go ahead and get them their next levels it's probably not worth it. Branwen gets only one additional level 3 spell slot! Definitely not worth the downtime to me. Safana can get 25 more skill points for stealth, which would be nice. But I then wouldn't be able to get her Thief skills back for a lot longer than if I dual her at Thief 5. So no good on that either. Ah well.

Schneidend

Lemernis said:

Lol, you're rendered speechless?

I guess it should be said that many (most?) players would dual the characters later than I have. But it depends on what you're looking to get out of them, and the game as a whole. For me, my goal here is to find a sweet spot between a decent mix of class skills and minimizing the so-called 'downtime' waiting to get the original class skills back.

I just don't care much for dual-classing. I really don't appreciate a game mechanic that can be abused to the point where any single class is laughably weak by comparison.

Lemernis

You know, I ordinarily don't like dual-classing. I can't see doing it for a BGT run where one duals the main character at level 13 and the like. (I can respect how others might enjoy it, but it's not for me--too much downtime for my personal taste.)

I think dualing is a lot more manageable in a BG:EE game. In this game I'm in BG city now with all the characters finally dualed, and I having done next to no sidequesting. I have a huge amount of the game ahead of me-possible about two thirds of it. Only two of the NPCs don't yet have their original class skills back, because they just dualed. But their levels will come fast because they're Thief and Mage, respectively. So perhaps with about half of the content completed I'll have them all in their full glory.

I wouldn't say that any of these dual-classses that I'm running here is even close to 'broken'. They're just cool. Xzar in particular.

Also, this particular game has been a fascinating and fun little project, at least for me. It reinvents characters that I'm so familiar with. It's been a blast to use them in this new way.

[Deleted User]

Also, if you're going to play around with dual-classing NPC's, BG1 is the only place to do it, since there are hardly any NPC's in BG2 who you can dual (they're either dual-classed already or not eligible).