Need some help with "rogues" character
varlak
Member Posts: 15
I guess that I miss-use and miss-build my rogues as they totally suck and end being only used for disarming traps and unlocking chests (in fight once backstab is used I just hide him so he wont get murdered).
1) Pure rogue with no "kit", is the "snare trap" that usefull ? Does it make it for the loss of power ?
2) What would be the reasons to go rogue/cleric ? Many seems to claim that's a near overpowered combination but I don't get it. Wouldn't I lose too much "thieving" skills ?
3) Does a bow can backstab ?
4) How the "thieving points allowed" are calculated when you multiclass a rogue/x ?
5) What is supposed to be the difference between a clerc/rogue and a rogue/clerc ? or a warrior/rogue and a rogue/warrior ?
1) Pure rogue with no "kit", is the "snare trap" that usefull ? Does it make it for the loss of power ?
2) What would be the reasons to go rogue/cleric ? Many seems to claim that's a near overpowered combination but I don't get it. Wouldn't I lose too much "thieving" skills ?
3) Does a bow can backstab ?
4) How the "thieving points allowed" are calculated when you multiclass a rogue/x ?
5) What is supposed to be the difference between a clerc/rogue and a rogue/clerc ? or a warrior/rogue and a rogue/warrior ?
0
Comments
1) Yes it is quite powerful doing 2d8+5 in an area of effect. You can find the details here in Chris Lee's thief guide which gives some odd advice in places but is also a good source of data. http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/258273-baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/faqs/27550
You don't get enough thief points in BG1 to have good scores in all of the skills so it's up to you which you choose to invest in.
2) C/T isn't overpowered at all. It's a great utility class able to do a lot of things and support the party but its combat ability isn't great.
3) No. Only melee weapons a single class thief can use (without Use Any Item) can be used to backstab.
4) There is no calculation. You get normal points on your thief levels and none other.
5) For multiclasses there is no difference. For dual classes you start as one class and permanently switch to another. For more on the difference between multis and duals just search this or any other BG forum, it has been explained a thousand times.
In general a single class vanilla thief isn't that powerful. I see a lot of questions asking 'is x class/race viable?' and I say yes they are all viable, just not all equal.
As for thieving skills I'll focus on spot/disarmes trap and open lock. I'd like to be able to use set trap but its kinda require lots of pts into hide in shadow and move silently to scout the area to know where to land the trap :-P
If you also want them to be good at melee combat, make a fighter/thief or Swashbuckler (thief kit).
If yes then is their any reason to go full rogue ?
BUT, thief is a very easy experience table. You will max out those abilities quickly, and a single class thief won't really get much better for the rest of the game. If I were doing a PC thief I would always dual or multi them, there are advantages to either choice.
2) The rogue/cleric combination is good because of the cleric being able to heal, wear good armor, and be a decent melee fighter. The rogue itself is usually used for ranged to interrupt mages. Both of them together though makes for a melee fighter that can heal, wear good armor, buff, and still backstab.
3) Bow's cannot backstab. In BG:TOB each class has different abilities they start getting (1 per level) and one of the abilities allows them to deal backstab damage with bows.
4) The thieving points are the same when you multiclass. You get the same point everytime the thief class of your character levels. It will take you longer to level the thief class because of the shared XP, but honestly thieves level up quickly enough to where a pure thief never runs into a lock they cant pick or a trap they can't disarm. For multiclassed thieves it only happens once in a blue moon.
5) Cleric/rogue- Read #2.
Warrior/rogue- Good armor, good attack, can disarm traps, backstab. This is the best backstabbing class makeup (well, Assassin dual'd to warrior is) because you get some of the THACO of a warrior, the proficiencies of a warrior, and still the backstab multiplier of a rogue.
Rogue/warrior- Uhhh..??
Casting the second level mage spell 'strength' will raise a thief to 18/50 STR which will improve the likelihood of a hit. Playing as a half-orc gives you huge bonuses (up to 19STR).
Pick targets that are wearing no armor or light armor (archers, mages etc). They also tend to have low HP increasing the chances of a one hit kill.
Single weapon style (or two handed style) doubles your critical hit chance. THS also gives extra damage (making quarterstaves quite powerful).
Haste, boots of speed or oil of speed can let your thief backstab, then run around a corner, hide, and backstab again. Invisibility potions can also do this, but they are rare early on. Invisibility is a 2nd level mage spell which does the trick.
Lastly being a fighter-thief makes you an amazing backstabber with tons of damage and to-hit bonuses.
The Dagger of Venom is nice for backstabbing mages (or even clerics, though they're harder to hit), as if they fail their poison save, it does damage every round (for 6 rounds, I think), which disrupts their casting
2) Actually a half-orc Cleric/Thief who backstabs with a quarterstaff is really, really fun, and very badass. This race/class delivers wonderfully devastating damage on backstabs due to massive half-orc Strength, cleric buffs, and the powerful staves in the game (Staff of Striking in BG1 and Staff of the Ram in BG2).
If you're taking the character into BG2, in ToB you shift the emphasis to spellcasting. But it's still very satisfying all around. I remember a thread by someone here (@sandmanCCL ?) who posted screens of a C/T using HLAs to backstab while morphed into some sort of massive gollum, and that thing was getting unbelievable crits on backstabs--just utterly 'broken' (i.e., game-breakingly powerful). You don't need to play the character that way, of course, but it's an option if you want to get ridiculous. The half-orc is a multi-class so you have both class skills along side one another throughout the game.
3) Nope.
4) Thieves get 25 skill points to allocate per level, whether they are multi-class or dual-class.
5) For a multi-class (non-humans only) both classes progress simultaneously throughout the game, each class leveling at it's own XP rate.
For a dual-class (human only) it's a matter of deciding which class you begin with, and which one you dual to. In order to dual-class you need to have at least 17 points in the prime ability of the the class you're switching to. When you dual-class, your original class skills will be deactivated until you reach one level higher in the new class than the original one. Then you'll get the original class skills back. At whatever level you chose to dual when in the original class, that's as high as you'll go in the original class. You can continue to level-up in the new class however (until you hit the XP cap; but there's a way to remove the XP cap if you wish).
So when dual-classing, the decision about which class you start with, and when to dual, determines how far you'll go in the original class skills.
in tob classes get abilities and one of the thief ones is assassination.
Half-Orc can can start with a 19 strength and constitution but no bonuses to thieving skills and can only have an 18 in dexterity. If you want a pure melee thief then this is the way to go in my opinion.
Elf gets a natural +1 to THACO with swords and bows, can have a 19 dex and gets bonuses to thieving skills. But they can only start with a 18/00 strength and a 17 constitution. Go with an elf for deadly archer thief or a combination backstabber/archer.
Honorable mention to Halflings. Roll a halfling if you want a dedicated archer thief with good saving throws and great thieving skill bonuses. Not my favorite though.
As you can tell the advantages of both are fantastic and the disadvantages aren't really disadvantages at all. Just depends on what you prefer. A fighter/thief will be much better at combat in general. You can put two pips into any weapon skill and even 3 pips into dual wielding if you want. It's a win win situation. The only negative about the fighter/thief is its a multi-class so it will level a little bit slower. But as someone already mentioned, thieves level extremely fast so I doubt that you'll notice it. I could be wrong but I believe that fighter/thieves are the fastest leveling multi-class combo.
Going into BG2 your fighter/thief will just get better and better. Soon you'll have enough thieving points to max out all your skills and you'll get to pick HLA's from both the fighter pool and thief pool. Just pure awesome sauce.
thief/ilusionist gnome
more utiliti than raw power but still fun
assasin
orc should punch really hard
elf is basicly weaker human with minimal bonuses with sword/bow
dwarf is weaker thief but good saving throws
fightjer/thief is very good in every race
2) You do not lose too much in terms of being a thief as a multiclass of 2 classes (Mage/Thief, Cleric/Thief or Fighter/Thief), I personally think multiclassing a thief is a good idea as they are not all that powerful of a class by themselves and will in combat actually do better as a slightly lower level Fighter, Mage or Cleric.
3) Ranged weapon does not can backstab.
4) When Multiclassed, the character will split all XP gained between the classes, if you are x/Thief, every 2 points of XP will give the Thief class 1 point of XP, every time the thief levels up, you gain the normal 25 points to put in the skills
5) Multiclass is that you are both of the classes and you are gaining XP on both of them, Mage/Thief you level up as if the character was both a mage and a thief and has access to both their abilties (but the XP is split so you will level slightly slower)
Dual-Class is for Human characters, it's their alternative to Multiclass, they will stop gaining XP in their first class, and take a new class, once you out level your first class with the 2nd one, you will regain the abilities of that class but that class will no longer get anything new. It is used to do certain things, like Kensai/Mage is one rather powerful Dual-Class, Kensai's inability to use armor goes well with a mage needing to not wear armor to cast spells, you get the abilities of a Fighter and you get to become a high level mage.